63 - You Asked, We Answered

[00:00:01] Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Briggs, and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the IBLP cult, which you might know from the Duggar family.

[00:00:15] And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs. I'm Amanda's husband, and I have not heard most of these stories before, so stay tuned and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:25] All right, welcome back to the next episode. Today we are going to run through some Q&A from the website and comments and emails. So yeah, let's jump right into it.

[00:00:43] First up, we've got a question from Courtney and she says, what is IBLP's teaching on head covering? Going that hardcore into the authority and submission aspects, you would think that would be included?

[00:00:57] Hi Courtney, thanks for the question. You would in fact think that head coverings would be, you know, mandated, but they weren't because your hair was your crown of glory and your hair was kind of like your head covering.

[00:01:14] Okay.

[00:01:14] So this was handled in different ways. There were women and girls in the cult who wore head coverings. You would see those at like the Knoxville conferences or seminars and all that kind of stuff. But generally speaking, that's why women had like the long flowing hair and usually long hair and usually softly curling hair because that's what Bill liked.

[00:01:38] So that was kind of like the de facto head covering. And I think I've shared before that like we didn't grow up with head coverings other than our long hair. But one of my biological sisters eventually married a guy whose church slash family did head coverings and she started wearing head coverings at least at church.

[00:02:00] I don't know if she did it all the time. I don't know. I haven't talked to her in like a decade, more than a decade, I think. So I don't know if she still does that. But last I knew she had started wearing head coverings at least sometimes.

[00:02:15] So is it like, like what would this head covering look like? Was it like pretty consistent between everybody or the people at Worm?

[00:02:24] The people at Worm, it was like, um, is it Amish or Mennonite where it's almost like a, a mesh, like boxy little cap thing. Yeah. It usually looked like that.

[00:02:39] Okay. That's what I pictured in my head, but I wasn't sure. Cause I know there's a couple of different ones out there.

[00:02:45] Yeah. But yeah, I will, I will kind of expect the same thing. I feel like they're just with the cult stuff. There's weird things that you would expect to see and they didn't do. I don't know. It's surprising.

[00:02:57] Can you imagine me reacting to being told I had to wear head covering?

[00:03:00] I think jeans was bad enough.

[00:03:06] I did not like the control they wielded over my hair. Um, so having to wear a hat all the time or a cap or whatever, I would not have been happy. And I would have been vocal about that and that would have gotten me into even more trouble. So it's probably a very good thing for me and my physical safety that that was not part of the cult's requirements.

[00:03:28] So I guess going off of that, were you ever like dictated what your hair had to look like?

[00:03:33] Oh God. Yeah. Rick and Chris would not let me cut my hair for a really long time. Um, I think I was 12 or something before I got like a real haircut. Like we were allowed to trim it and stuff, but I was supposed to keep it long, like past my shoulders, preferably past my elbows.

[00:03:57] I could sit on it for a while. Um, that was like very godly. It was very godly when my hair was long enough, I could sit on it. And then, yeah, I think, I think I've shared before we moved in the house, didn't have air conditioning. It was like a record breaking summer.

[00:04:11] Mm-hmm.

[00:04:13] Yeah.

[00:05:12] Proof.

[00:05:13] Proof.

[00:05:15] Proof.

[00:05:18] Proof.

[00:05:45] Proof.

[00:05:46] Proof.

[00:05:48] Proof.

[00:05:50] Proof.

[00:06:20] Proof.

[00:06:24] Proof.

[00:06:28] Proof.

[00:06:31] Proof.

[00:06:35] Proof.

[00:07:05] Proof.

[00:07:15] She says,

[00:07:36] Your story demonstrates from a young age, you could present a well-rounded argument when you disagreed. You were resourceful and intelligent. I truly wonder if your intelligence and rebelliousness was seen as a threat. You weren't supposed to question anything. I also wonder if your brother, who is basically already a mini cult leader in training, saw your boldness and intelligence and wanted to control and abuse you more because of it.

[00:08:02] It's really a shame that such a naturally curious and gifted child was born to such circumstances. I couldn't help but notice that in some of the stories I've heard over the years of people leaving cults, the strong, smart ones are actually the ones who seem to get targeted the most. Thoughts on this?

[00:08:20] Wow.

[00:08:21] There's a lot in there.

[00:08:22] Wow. Hi, April. Wow. I need to think about this.

[00:08:31] This is so hard. My therapist would chuckle if she heard this episode because I still struggle to think of myself as a strong, smart, rebellious person whose intelligence was threatening to men as a child.

[00:08:47] I think part of it was just how many times I was told I was stupid and wouldn't amount to anything as a kid.

[00:08:54] I still, I think I still kind of like default to that initially and then have to correct to like,

[00:09:01] nope, you're in a PhD program and you're kicking ass and you've done a lot of things and you're fine.

[00:09:08] And so this, I, help Kyle, how do we answer this question? I mean, on paper that really makes sense. Me sitting here, I don't look back and go like, wow, I was this remarkable child.

[00:09:29] But I guess if I really think about it, like, yeah, I did go like use resources to translate Hebrew and Greek to make strong arguments, which probably did intimidate men.

[00:09:39] I mean, if we start from the first part of the question, since there's a couple of different questions in here, like, do you think you were targeted or were other girls or women in the cult targeted because of their strong willed personalities?

[00:09:56] Like, that's what it kind of boils down to.

[00:09:59] I think from like the parental abuse. Yes.

[00:10:03] We can, we can get to the sexual abuse. I think in terms of Rick and Chris and how they treated me. Yes.

[00:10:11] I stuck out in that I fought back. I had ideas, opinions. I was pretty relentless about things I cared about. Why are you smirking over there?

[00:10:21] That's not changed.

[00:10:25] If I felt like something was wrong or unjust, like I was not going to shut up about it. And that, you know, that was problematic in a culture where you were just supposed to shut up and sit down.

[00:10:37] So I think that definitely, like, I attracted more fury from the adults because of that.

[00:10:45] Mm hmm.

[00:10:46] In terms of my brother, I mean, what we know about sexual assault is that it's about power and control.

[00:10:53] And like April pointed out, Andy was being groomed to be a terrible adult man.

[00:11:01] Like he was being groomed to be an oppressive, authoritative, patriarchal, misogynistic man.

[00:11:08] Um, so I don't know if he harmed my other sisters.

[00:11:13] I know what they say, but I don't know if that's true.

[00:11:16] And if I was the only one of the female children who was harmed, like, I guess in a way it does kind of make sense because I didn't, I didn't fawn over him.

[00:11:31] Like Amy kind of fawned over Andy.

[00:11:33] Andrea was older, but like, I think they had a decent relationship.

[00:11:39] And then we all know what the youngest one, what Abigail at least said, um, like in her letter to the judge and everything.

[00:11:46] Um, I thought he was the shit until he started raping me.

[00:11:51] There is that, like, I thought he was funny and I thought he was cool and I thought he was smart.

[00:11:55] And, um, I laughed at his jokes and I liked how he played guitar and, you know, stuff like that.

[00:12:03] Um, I'm trying to remember cause I think I felt all those ways, but I don't think I like, like I idolized him, but quietly.

[00:12:12] I don't think I was following him around with like symbols going Andy is the greatest.

[00:12:17] Andy is the best.

[00:12:17] I love Andy so much.

[00:12:19] I think I just kind of like quietly admired him, um, and looked up to him until he started raping me.

[00:12:25] Um, so I don't know, like that, that would make sense that I was the thing to smash down because I was standing up the tallest of the, of the females available.

[00:12:42] Just like generally in the cult, like, did you, were you aware of or see other girls that were like strong or vocal, like being targeted more so than the loudest.

[00:12:55] I was the loudest.

[00:12:56] I was the, I was the one that usually got labeled bossy, which just meant I had leadership skills.

[00:13:02] That's what they, that's what they call little girls who are smart and have leadership skills.

[00:13:07] They tell them they're bossy.

[00:13:08] Um, don't do that.

[00:13:10] Tell little girls that they're smart and have leadership skills.

[00:13:14] So I, looking back, I can identify several of my childhood acquaintances that I think were probably for sure sexually assaulted by people in the cult and or people in their family.

[00:13:27] And then I have also had people I knew as a child reach out to me and tell me they were sexually assaulted.

[00:13:32] Um, but, but they, they were usually like the meeker, milder people who were good Christian girls in the cult with one exception.

[00:13:45] Um, she was also a pretty ambitious, like bolder personality.

[00:13:53] Um, and it happened to her too.

[00:13:54] So I don't know.

[00:13:57] Sometimes I feel like people who intend harm, um, like sometimes they go for, for people they think will resist.

[00:14:09] And sometimes they just go for what's in front of them, like the easy target.

[00:14:13] Um, and I think there was both in the cult.

[00:14:16] I think there were easy targets and then there was like systematic, um, abuse of people who were a threat to the norm.

[00:14:26] Yeah.

[00:14:27] It makes it's such an interesting question and dynamic there just because you, since there's so much oppression in that environment, you would think, okay, well, it's the, the rebellious ones that get more abuse.

[00:14:45] And then on the other hand, you're like, okay, well, it's like quiet ones that also would get the abuse.

[00:14:50] Cause they're the most likely to not say anything.

[00:14:52] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:53] And so it's like, it's so confusing.

[00:14:56] I think about that all the time.

[00:14:57] I think about that all the time.

[00:14:58] Um, with my brother, like he was kind of dumb in selecting me.

[00:15:04] Like he, he fucked with the wrong person.

[00:15:08] Um, and he should have known better.

[00:15:11] Like, I mean, I I've said this before and it's the weirdest thing, but I'll say it again.

[00:15:15] Like if I am the only one of my siblings that he harmed, like I'm fucking glad it was me because how I came to this planet, I was going to get help someday.

[00:15:25] And I was going to be okay someday.

[00:15:27] Cause I, that's just who I am.

[00:15:29] Like I was not going to stop until I got there.

[00:15:32] So like, thankfully he was dumb and picked me.

[00:15:36] Cause he's never like, I'm never going to stop talking about this either.

[00:15:39] So, you know, there's that too.

[00:15:41] But like what he, like I was outspoken.

[00:15:45] I pushed back.

[00:15:46] You know how many times I got soap in my mouth for calling bullshit on stuff?

[00:15:49] Like, Oh my God, what was he thinking?

[00:15:53] What was he thinking?

[00:15:54] I was, I was never going to be quiet.

[00:15:57] And if any of them, I think Rick and Chris, they knew, I think Rick and Chris knew because there was no other reason for them to oppress me so much.

[00:16:06] They, they feared that part of my personality that would eventually speak up.

[00:16:12] Like I did.

[00:16:13] If you're trying to hide what your family is doing and then you got a kid that talks a lot and will say anything.

[00:16:18] Or especially things they don't like, like as a threat to their existence.

[00:16:23] It was worse than that.

[00:16:24] It was, it was a kid who spoke a lot and put things together in a logical, credible way and could make a logical argument, translating other languages if necessary to do so.

[00:16:37] Like I can see why Rick and Chris were scared out of their minds.

[00:16:41] I'm terrifying.

[00:16:43] I kind of like that.

[00:16:45] I'm not going to lie.

[00:16:45] Um, but like Andy, what was he thinking?

[00:16:52] He picked, he, he was playing with fire.

[00:16:55] I don't know.

[00:16:56] Maybe that was part of the power and control dynamic for him.

[00:16:59] Like see if he could be big enough and bad enough to make me stay silent forever.

[00:17:07] I mean, he, he tried, like he really tried into my adulthood.

[00:17:10] He tried.

[00:17:11] We've talked about it in this podcast, but yeah, like of all the, of all the people in the family to pick on, I was not the right person to pick on and hope that they stayed silent.

[00:17:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:29] So that's, that is something I think about.

[00:17:32] Like, what the fuck, man?

[00:17:35] What were you thinking?

[00:17:36] So I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question based on what you're saying, but were you always like that even before he started raping you?

[00:17:46] Like, were you always just like very outspoken and like just gonna say what?

[00:17:52] I got in trouble on Thanksgiving.

[00:17:54] So Thanksgiving is coming up.

[00:17:56] Oh my gosh.

[00:17:57] I was taken to my great uncle and forced to apologize because I told him his day after Thanksgiving soup looked like throw up.

[00:18:05] Oh, I haven't heard that one before.

[00:18:07] That's a difficult uncle story.

[00:18:09] So he was just stirring the pot on the stove.

[00:18:12] He always made, I mean, it was delicious and he made it every year and I was like five or something or seven.

[00:18:19] And I jumped up on the, on the little, um, oh, what is it?

[00:18:25] Like the built-in, yeah, seating next to the stove.

[00:18:28] And I looked in the pot and I was like, that looks like throw up.

[00:18:34] And then somehow Rick and Chris found out and I had to go find uncle Mark and tell him I was sorry for calling his soup throw up.

[00:18:41] Um, and I mean, I, I didn't mean any harm by it.

[00:18:45] It was just like, it looks like throw up.

[00:18:48] Um, yeah.

[00:18:50] So I mean, like, and oh, the, you can't braid your hair thing.

[00:18:54] Like I got into a shouting match with Rick because Bill said I couldn't braid my hair anymore.

[00:18:59] And I was like, no, like I was, I pushed back.

[00:19:03] And like with my friends, even the little, like, I call them friends.

[00:19:08] Um, there were a couple of cult families.

[00:19:10] We all got together and that was like, those were my friends.

[00:19:15] But then after Rick and Chris found out about Andy, I wasn't allowed to hang out with people as much anymore.

[00:19:20] Probably because they were afraid I would say something.

[00:19:24] But yeah, like when they were being little bitches, I would tell them like, you're being a bully right now.

[00:19:31] And I don't know.

[00:19:32] And then like, and old, when I was a little bit older, um, in the cult church, there was this one boy who would like bully my brothers.

[00:19:40] And I would like, I was younger than him, shorter than him.

[00:19:43] I would get in his face and be like, if you hurt them, I will mess you up.

[00:19:47] Like, I don't know.

[00:19:49] I.

[00:19:51] That's not changed.

[00:19:53] No.

[00:19:54] You were fiercely protective.

[00:19:57] Of people I love.

[00:19:58] Yes.

[00:19:58] And so, yeah, I just, I feel like he wasn't, my brother wasn't so smart when he, when he decided to pick on me.

[00:20:10] Didn't end well for him.

[00:20:12] Nope.

[00:20:13] That's for sure.

[00:20:16] All right.

[00:20:16] So next up, we've got a question from Brittany.

[00:20:21] And she says in the episode about being productive and working tirelessly, I realized that the biblical principle of Sabbath was not mentioned.

[00:20:29] I know Bill cherry picked the Bible versus death, got his own purposes, but I'm curious how or if this practice of total rest for a full day each week was present within the cult.

[00:20:41] While endless work was the primary focus in order to be morally superior.

[00:20:45] Oh, I wish I remembered more about how this was handled on the like cult compound, the headquarters.

[00:20:54] So how that played out in my family was like, we didn't do much except for church on Sunday.

[00:21:03] When I, I feel like there were periods when Rick and Chris were like more zealous where, you know, we wouldn't do yard work and we wouldn't do house projects.

[00:21:12] It was just go to church and relax in the afternoon and family devotions in the evening or church in the evening, depending on which church it was.

[00:21:21] But eventually that kind of went away and it was just like church all morning for four hours and then come home and maybe host church people for lunch.

[00:21:30] Or if there weren't church people, then, you know, house projects or mow the yard or, you know, whatever.

[00:21:38] I think that there was an entirely different protocol at headquarters for Sundays where like the kitchen wasn't open or they had to fast or something.

[00:21:51] There was, there was something there.

[00:21:52] And then I think they had like, you could go to whatever church in the morning, but then I think they had some sort of service back on the compound Sunday night, I think.

[00:22:04] Or they might've had like a meal back on the compound Sunday night or something.

[00:22:10] But I think that Bill still worked.

[00:22:14] And I think he still made his close minions work.

[00:22:20] Like the people who actually worked in his office.

[00:22:23] I mean, I could totally see him like bending the rules and saying there's a Sabbath thing.

[00:22:29] Well, yeah, because nothing applied to him.

[00:22:29] Yeah.

[00:22:29] Well, I assume those kids that are working there are probably like working around the clock and like having to keep the machine running and there was no, no breaks.

[00:22:39] I mean, I think they like Andrea and Andy would come home on the weekends.

[00:22:44] Okay.

[00:22:44] I think it all kind of depended like which office or crew you were assigned to.

[00:22:50] Like the folks who did the landscaping, I don't know if they had to work on Saturdays or, you know, whatever.

[00:22:56] But I don't think anyone was like officially allowed to work on Sunday unless it was the kitchen to prepare like one meal or Bill and his inner staff circle working, you know, around the clock.

[00:23:09] I mean, having a four hour long sermon or whatever you guys called it, like that's all.

[00:23:17] That's a long service.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:19] And, you know, by the time you get a family of 10 up in the morning and go to church for four hours and then come home, like that's a very small window to even turn around and get ready to go back to like evening service.

[00:23:33] We didn't.

[00:23:34] Oh, that, that cult church did not meet in the evening.

[00:23:39] The church we attended, the non-cult church we attended like back before that did.

[00:23:45] And we usually went to that until they started doing rock music and then they were evil.

[00:23:51] Of course.

[00:23:54] But yeah, it didn't leave a whole lot of time for anything.

[00:23:58] There wasn't like a full stop anywhere, really.

[00:24:04] The last question we have today is from a listener in New York and they ask, I was curious to see what your thoughts are and if the roles of you and Andy were flipped.

[00:24:12] How do you think your parents would react if their daughter was the perpetrator and their son was the victim?

[00:24:18] What if the perpetrator was outside of the family and their son was the victim?

[00:24:28] That's a good question.

[00:24:29] Yeah, that is.

[00:24:33] If the roles were reversed and like, let's say, had Andrea abused Andy or something like that.

[00:24:43] First of all, I don't, I don't know if I don't think it would have been reported or anything.

[00:24:50] To law enforcement, I think they would have kept it quiet.

[00:24:53] They probably would have written it off a bit more to like, oh, girls don't do that, which is not true.

[00:25:03] Statistically, males are more likely to commit sexual, sexually violent acts or sexual assault acts, but females do it as well.

[00:25:11] I think that there would have been.

[00:25:15] Well, you know what?

[00:25:17] I don't know if they even would have thought to provide care for a boy.

[00:25:25] Like, I think it all just would have been hushed up as well.

[00:25:31] I think the only difference, here's the difference, I think.

[00:25:34] You know how I've told in my stories in the earlier episodes of the show how like I went to Rick and Chris and I asked for help at various points?

[00:25:43] I think had I been male, that would have been taken seriously.

[00:25:47] So I think that's where the real difference would have been.

[00:25:49] I still think it would have been hushed up and all of that, but I think cries for help would have been taken very seriously.

[00:25:56] Hmm.

[00:25:57] What do you think?

[00:25:59] Uh, I mean, I agree with you.

[00:26:01] Obviously, it was just my opinion and I don't know these people like you do.

[00:26:09] I can see them taking a boy's complaints or, you know, voicing their, their needs more seriously.

[00:26:19] It's just interesting to think, okay, well, you know, if, if taking care of the boy is very important, how does that work when you're still not going to say anything?

[00:26:32] As the family is still not going to say anything and voice that opinion, they're not going to call the police.

[00:26:37] They're not going to, you know.

[00:26:39] Yeah.

[00:26:40] Like what, what would actually be the net difference between a male or a female perpetrator there?

[00:26:49] And it's just, it seems like there's not like, what would they do?

[00:26:53] Like kick the girl out of the family, like give her away.

[00:26:56] Like, is that something they would do?

[00:26:57] Like, okay, well we've got this girl child that's, you know, sexually abusing one of our boy children.

[00:27:04] Like, do you just get rid of them?

[00:27:07] No, I think, I think disciplining or controlling girls was a lot more normal.

[00:27:15] So there might've been some changes to like access and, you know, keeping the girl separated more from the boy.

[00:27:27] Um, I think another difference listening to you talk, something that came to mind was like, I think if Andy had been the victim, then like Rick probably would have taken him out on, on fishing trips and they would have sat there and they would have talked about it.

[00:27:41] And like, you know, there, there would have probably been more acknowledgement of the harm.

[00:27:45] There would have been more discussion of it.

[00:27:47] There would have been like.

[00:27:49] Emotional support.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:51] And like parental counseling of the abused child.

[00:27:54] Not that I think that that's sufficient.

[00:27:57] Like, I don't think most parents are qualified to counsel a child through sexual abuse.

[00:28:02] Um, even like clinical therapists probably need someone else to do that because they're so close to the situation.

[00:28:10] Um, they would probably prefer someone else counsel their child through that and then act as, you know, a normal parent, um, in a support role in that scenario.

[00:28:19] So, but I think that there would have been more like counseling and mentoring and, you know, support from Rick to Andy.

[00:28:26] Yeah.

[00:28:26] And plus like in the cult, like controlling a girl child was already a thing.

[00:28:33] Like that was already normalized.

[00:28:34] And so I'm sure the, the consequences for the girl perpetrator would have probably been much higher.

[00:28:41] Yeah.

[00:28:42] Yeah.

[00:28:43] In internally, like within the family or within the cult, like whether that was physical abuse or, or, you know, isolation or something like that.

[00:28:52] I can, I can see that being a thing.

[00:28:54] Probably more physically violent toward a girl perpetrator.

[00:28:58] Mm hmm.

[00:28:59] I mean, they were already controlling them.

[00:29:01] So I'm sure they could have controlled them even more than they were already doing.

[00:29:06] But yeah.

[00:29:07] Yeah.

[00:29:08] Yeah.

[00:29:08] Was there, was there another part to that question?

[00:29:11] The, um, if the roles had been reversed and then I feel, was there something else?

[00:29:16] Oh yes.

[00:29:17] What if the perpetrator was outside of the family and their son was the victim?

[00:29:23] Um, I think generally, and this is Amanda with her educator hat on.

[00:29:28] I think generally when the perpetrator is not someone close to the family or known by the family, families are a lot more likely to like mobilize, to take action against the external harm.

[00:29:42] Um, unfortunately like 97% of child victims of sexual assault and all the perpetrator and the perpetrator is someone like known to and close to the family.

[00:29:52] So that's rare, um, to have that like mobilization of the family to go fight the bad guy who harmed the kid.

[00:29:59] Um, but external, uh, I think, I think if it had been like a neighbor or, um, not someone religious, not a pastor, but like, um, a non-Christian, something like that.

[00:30:19] Do you think they would have called the police?

[00:30:21] Yes.

[00:30:21] Really?

[00:30:22] Yes.

[00:30:22] See, I would have guessed no, because then the police would be like in your home asking you questions, talking like to one of the children in that that's like the police in your house.

[00:30:37] That's a good point.

[00:30:38] I still, I still, I still like my gut says that when it's, when it's an other, when it's an outsider, especially a non-Christian outsider, then like the wrath of God and like everything from the Bible suddenly applies to like justice and render into Caesar that which is Caesar's like, which for people who didn't grow up with the Bible is a Bible phrase for saying, follow the laws of your land, um, or follow your government.

[00:31:06] And it's laws.

[00:31:08] Um, so yeah, I think, I think if it's an other, if it's a non-Christian, a non-cult person, an outsider, then yeah, suddenly all of the Bible rhetoric around justice and law applies.

[00:31:21] What if it was another kid in like a different cult family?

[00:31:25] That probably would have just been handled among the parents.

[00:31:28] Internally.

[00:31:29] Yeah.

[00:31:29] Still no law enforcement.

[00:31:31] Probably Bill or someone in leadership would have been brought in to like mediate and provide wisdom and insight.

[00:31:38] Hmm.

[00:31:39] Yeah.

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:40] I could see that.

[00:31:41] All right.

[00:31:41] Well, those are some good questions.

[00:31:43] Keep them coming.

[00:31:43] Thanks guys.

[00:31:44] We have, we have more of these episodes planned.

[00:31:47] They're coming.

[00:31:48] Um, I know when I put the poll out on Instagram a little over a week ago, by the time this comes out, there were a couple folks who talked about, or there was one post about Q and a or something like that.

[00:32:02] And it got some love.

[00:32:03] So, um, we will, we'll continue to answer questions about that.

[00:32:08] And, um, to everyone who enjoyed the election and cults episode, thanks for your, um, thanks for that episode idea.

[00:32:16] It seemed like it was pretty well received.

[00:32:19] Well, there's a link in the description.

[00:32:21] If you want to send us a message, you can also send us a message on cultileftbehind.com.

[00:32:26] And there's also a link in the episode descriptions.

[00:32:28] If you want to support the show and we'll be back next week.

[00:32:32] Thanks for listening to another episode of the cult I left behind.

[00:32:35] Until next time, don't join a cult.

[00:32:39] If you enjoyed this podcast, please like, share, and subscribe, and we will catch you on the next episode.