57 - On a Journey to Trust

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm your host, Amanda Briggs, and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_03]: IBLP cult which you might know from the Duggar family.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I am Amanda's husband and I have not heard most of these stories before so stay tuned

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Alright welcome back to the next episode.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Today we have a special guest.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We have Skye, one of our listeners on the show to share her story.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Would you want to introduce yourself Skye?

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi I'm Skye.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I started listening to the podcast a little under a year ago, started from episode one

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_06]: and just absolutely fell in love with you guys and I'm super glad to be here.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_03]: We're so happy to have you here.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's turning into a tradition or a theme or something where we connect with

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: listeners and then they share their stories with us and we're like you want to come on

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: our podcast?

[00:01:05] This is the world.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So I love that that's like turning into a thing.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You're our third guest who is also a listener and I just love it and I love how you

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and I initially connected.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you reached out with a message about one of the episodes and then we ended

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: up having a conversation over Instagram about, I had to look it up.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It was episode 37, the no sex on Saturdays where we also answered some listener questions

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: about how to be authentic and how to like still have relationships with Christians when you're

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: deconstructing or have left Christianity and stuff like that.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And I had said, oh gosh, I liked how I worded it in that episode something along the

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: lines of like, you know, every like just respect everyone's religion.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: If they like to pray, I still ask them to pray because I know that's the most

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: powerful thing they can do.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And you had some comments about that.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We ended up having a great discussion.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you shared that you grew up in a super conservative Christian school,

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: but your mom had an adult toy business.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And I went to Cal and I was like, we have a really interesting story.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_04]: We need to get her on the podcast.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's how can you not be curious?

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Those seem like such polar opposite things like I'm super Christian or,

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, sending my kids to a super Christian school, but also adult toy store,

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: which I mean, there's nothing wrong with the story stories being a Christian, but

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: unlikely combo.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_06]: It's it was a fun combo.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, start there.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that right?

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_04]: If we start your story with your mom is business.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I do not mind at all.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of actually a good way to push that off too, because my parents,

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_06]: they both like my dad grew up Mormon and left the church because he didn't want to give up

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_06]: surfing for missions.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And my mom was just kind of, you know, sometimes she went to church with

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_06]: friends and stuff.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_06]: She believed in God, but it was never a big deal at home.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_06]: So living and growing up in Southern California,

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_06]: you don't always have a lot of options for good schooling.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_06]: My parents really didn't want to send me to a public school growing up.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of people's consensus is Christian means good.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So they sent me to the Christian private school.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_06]: So that's kind of how that all got mixed up.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_06]: But when I was a toddler, she actually started working for

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_06]: adult toy lingerie, a bachelorette party company.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And she had so much fun with it.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_06]: She actually did Kendra's bachelorette party when she married Hugh Huffner at the Playboy Mansion.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_06]: And it was kind of just normal for me, I guess, like how, like saying plastic dicks and tubs and

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_06]: like lingerie kind of a lot.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, those are for mommies.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_06]: And when I was a kid, I saw one of the vibrating lipsticks and I've always loved makeup.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And I thought it was a real lipstick.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_06]: So I begged my mom.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, but it's such a pretty color.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_06]: She's like, you don't need that.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_06]: And especially going to the Christian school, she had her big,

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not going to name the company just for privacy sake, but it's kind of a sexy name

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_06]: for the company.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_06]: And she had a big sticker on the back of her car, like call me, you know.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_06]: And a bunch of the parents thought that my mom was a stripper.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I can only imagine pulling up to a Christian, like a conservative Christian school with a

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_05]: bumper sticker like that.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: The side eye.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_06]: There was probably an enormous amount of side eye.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you can imagine the side eye when for Teacher Appreciation Day,

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_06]: she gave my first grade teacher this cute little school teacher lingerie outfit.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Little apple on her head.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh yeah.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_04]: This is amazing.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Like did that like was she just like so comfortable with that?

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like being Christian and you know.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And sex is not evil.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So she and Bill would not have gotten along.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No, not at all.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't the normal use of the woman, Kyle?

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Breeding only.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Breeding only.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, with abstinence.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_06]: You must abstain, but you also be pregnant whatever you can.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Well I think it's cool that she was like comfortable with sexuality in that environment.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: It was probably good for people even though they didn't realize it at the time.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I completely agree.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_06]: And what's funny about that school too is it's not like all the teachers were like these bad people

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_06]: and stuff like that.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_06]: There were of course like a few bad eggs, which I'll talk about later, but some of the teachers

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_06]: were just like normal Christian people and of course like I was a child so it's not like I

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_06]: really really knew.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Me and my first grade teacher when I was six years old weren't going for coffee and having

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_06]: conversations about life, but for the most part some of them seemed pretty normal.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_06]: You know it was the higher administration that it's kind of the sketchier part of that school.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Well are you okay with switching gears then and getting into because your story kind of

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: starts with elementary school right?

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that hyper.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_06]: It really does.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I went to a Christian preschool but that was all finger painting and macaroni necklaces

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and stuff like that.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Our cute little Christmas play with baby Jesus but that was all really that that was.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And then in elementary school it was a bit harder of a shift.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_06]: We had chapel almost every day and I think Wednesdays it was like all day chapel.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_06]: That tracks.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_06]: And our curriculum was also kind of shaky.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't leave with a pre-med and pre-law degree like you did but.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Interestingly enough neither did I but yeah.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh my gosh you know ours wasn't based on the book of Matthew however you know we had

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_06]: history books but it was his story and we had science but it was like science through the

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Christian lens or like science through his eyes.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_06]: It's creation.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know I was really good at reading honestly because I read the Bible all the

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_06]: fucking time as one language right?

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Language comprehension was just up there.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_06]: And math was also kind of one of those things where it wasn't necessarily we only need to

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_06]: teach the women fractions so they can bake but I learned later when I went to public

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_06]: school how behind I really was because of all that.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_06]: And besides just the education it was a little bit more old school.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I was for context I was born in 1997 so you can do the math out there to see you

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_06]: know when I was in kindergarten or elementary school but they still let the principal bear

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_06]: bottom spank the kids.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you kidding me?

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Swear it like when I was a kid I thought that was weird right?

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I don't even like sitting on Santa's lap as a child and you're gonna let this

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_06]: strange man do that like yeah.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of I mean that's very weird.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in you know rural Oklahoma and you know they still spanked kids in school.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure the parents they would call the parents and like ask for permission before

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: they would do it but it was definitely not bear bottom spanking and they had like

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: oh I forget what they call them but they were like wooden paddles so it wasn't even like

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: hand to actual butt and it definitely wasn't bear butt and so like that's

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a that's a whole other level of of.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Was there a spanking implement or were they using their hands on kids at your school?

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: From what I remember there was both.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_06]: I personally like I had been in the principal's office before I got like Scott was bad today

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_06]: slip and I wrote mom instead of having my mom sign it so.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_06]: They figured me out and so good try.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I was I know I really did try.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I was at the principal's office and you know he called my mom all that stuff but I didn't

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_06]: get spanked what I do remember and what I did notice it was mostly the boys.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm my brother was spanked and he's two years younger than me and then I do remember seeing

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_06]: like the wooden spoon kind of dealio on the wall in the principal's office.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_06]: But like there were times because I mean we were all little Christian kids okay we were

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_06]: all tattling for Jesus okay and we were getting this one does sending each other to

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_06]: the office left and right like you you said a bad word I saw your underwear you know that's

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_06]: the fraud and go to the office later in life because you know you you don't really realize

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_06]: what everything is or what's all going on until you have like the context of like growing up.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I realized a lot more of like the boys were coming out of the office crying

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_06]: and it wasn't really the girls as much and it was like I remember specifically this one kid would

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_06]: just be in there every single day and he would just be in there for hours and just come out

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_06]: sobbing every single day and it like as a child I was like what is going on you know what I mean.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_06]: And then there's the whole super fun thing that ties the school and my mom's work together.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I vividly remember looking at a porn magazine with a teacher and at the time of course being five six

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_06]: years old you don't even know what the word porn is I mean maybe kids these days do but like I didn't.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_06]: And we were like comparing women's butts in this magazine I'm like of course like with a teacher

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and like an older student it was K through six and it was like okay well if I'm doing this with

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_06]: somebody that I'm supposed to be safe with this must not be bad you know and so I my first thought

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_06]: was it like oh this is bad you know and so when I went home and told my parents and I've asked

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_06]: both of them they have no memory of this whatsoever. When I went home and asked my parents

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_06]: you know what was I looking at like or told them I was looking at ladies butts with my teacher because

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_06]: I in my brain I'm not going to say hey guys I was looking at porn with my teacher today because

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_06]: that's not even a thing that I had. My mom thought that I had brought one of her lingerie catalogs

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_06]: to school and that was kind of my way of telling her and so you know I didn't get punished from

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_06]: what I remember she looked in my backpack of course like they didn't see the lingerie

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_06]: mags or anything catalogs and and then that was kind of it and I didn't realize until years later

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_06]: what that was you know and like I always had it in the back of my mind but like I never really

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_06]: brought it up again you know it was just kind of like I didn't know what to do with that

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_06]: information or how to categorize it until years later. Was it was it a male or a female teacher

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_06]: who was showing you these magazines? It was a female teacher and she um I from what I remember

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_06]: she taught the younger grades but I was never in her class. I actually got pretty good teachers

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_06]: from what I remember um I was never in her class and then she also had a son that worked at the

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_06]: school too who taught older kids and he was the drummer in our school band because it was

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_06]: obviously we were we were heathens we had drums but um I know gosh we were just so bad and um

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if like anybody else knew or you know like but the fact that she also had a son

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_06]: that went there I'm like okay like that kind of freaked me out but yeah and she was just

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_06]: like you know big woman or Jean all the time just dead him everywhere just looked like this

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_06]: nice little plump first grade teacher couldn't hurt a fly you know what I mean like you would never

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: guess. Which is typical of most predators right yeah right yeah especially at a yeah especially

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in a you know Christian elementary school yeah but so that's very concerning and then the little boy

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: leaving the principal's office sobbing almost every day after so hours hours yeah we know what that means

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah that yeah that's different and it you know I went to public school and you're right it was

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: like the boys that were always getting paddled and they were you know they just act out and they

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: get paddled they just they're repeat offenders uh for lack of a better term but it was definitely

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: never like hours in the principal's office from you know my experience it was like you know some

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: kid mouthed off in class they got sent to the principal's office whack whack whack you'd hear

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: it echo down the hallway and they come back in you know two minutes later tears in their eyes

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: like that was that was my experience with that and yeah like going being in there for hours would be

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_06]: uh another really huge red flag right huge red flag and a reason that I think that it was able

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_06]: to be kept a little bit more quiet is in southern California most of our buildings since we don't

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_06]: have like snow and stuff especially on the coast are they're all just um it's a big outdoor you

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_06]: know just buildings kind of everywhere and so like you know first grade buildings right here

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_06]: kindergarten's over here the office and the principal's office was its own building um and so like I

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_06]: remember so I don't know why but the secretary to me always looked like um oh my gosh I can't

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_06]: think of her name Bill Clinton under the desk lady oh monica Lewinsky she looks just like

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_06]: monica Lewinsky it's wild like the hair and everything it was kind of the era you know

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_06]: early 2000 coming out of the 90s kind of the peg bug big hair but black um you know it just wild to

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_06]: me like okay these people are working here they must kind of have some semblance of what's going on

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_06]: and so when that principal finally got arrested my third grade year they told the parents and

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_06]: the students that he had a heart attack and we needed to pray for him oh definitely yeah so the

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_06]: parents didn't know my mom didn't know until later um I ended up going to public school in a different

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_06]: district in the fourth grade um luckily you know but that was a whole thing and then you know on

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_06]: top of that in this elementary school you know we're learning all these very fundamentalist

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Christian values I was a little Bible thumping baby I was like yes Jesus I was singing in tongues on my

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_06]: slide in the backyard and just writing my Bible verses every day trying to be like the best I could be

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_06]: me and Amanda talked about this too we both had our little journals

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_06]: first of the day right first of the day yes self assigned oh my gosh I would kill to find my

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_04]: notebooks honestly I have mine and I'm scared to look at them I have a whole big box of them

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I might make Kyle do that for me one day yeah oh my gosh I asked my mom if she could try to look

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_06]: through some old stuff and she found some stuff she sent me like a big thing with like a Bible

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_06]: verse on it for Thanksgiving and pictures of all my family and me and my little uniform

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_06]: but you know so as I was learning all these fundamentalist Christian values I also

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_06]: you know as a child you know you know you feel things but you don't know the words for them

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_06]: well I had crushes on girls and boys as if boys wouldn't be bad enough

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_06]: so I'm just running around the playground and I'm like I think you're cute I think you're cute

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_06]: you know and just I thought everybody thought this way you know and it wasn't like of course

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_06]: like you're a kid it wasn't sexual or anything it was just like you're cute you know um and so one

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_06]: day we were in one of our Wednesday chapels it was first year third grade and this pastor starts

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_06]: talking about he was ancient like they do looked like one of those little dried out apple faces

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_06]: he had no business talking to first-year third graders I think we were all terrified

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_06]: oh and he starts talking about how homosexuals are gonna burn in the flames of hell and

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_06]: first through third graders first through third graders

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: gotta start young oh yeah yeah exactly okay so he's telling this to a bunch of first through

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_03]: third graders homosexuals are gonna go burn in hell great okay yep wonderful educational moment

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_06]: and what were you thinking and feeling um shock uh I'm going to hell what like you know my the

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_06]: glass shattered and I was like seven eighty and it's just my faith and everything I just

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_06]: remember sitting there and I was like the devil has a home in my heart and that's why I think girls

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_06]: are cute you know like because up to that point I was like I am one of God's little soldiers

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_06]: like I would cry because my family members weren't christian I remember sobbing because my

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_06]: uncle Bubba found out he was an atheist and oh no no I'm sobbing mama he's going to hell

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_06]: and you know and so this just like blew my mind and so I think after that something clicked in my

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_06]: brain and I started really paying a lot more attention and not just blindly following so did

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you did you even know like what homosexuality was like obviously we're having feelings for

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: like boys and girls but did they have to like explain it to you like homosexuality is if

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you like you know if you're a girl and you like a girl like did they have to like walk you through

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_06]: that and so like that's how you learned it as well he used that wonderful um line the you know man

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_06]: shall not sleep with man that's been written over and over and over again um and so that was

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of the context you know he wasn't he didn't just outright say like girls can't like girls and

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_06]: boys can't like you know he he very much scriptured it up um he did he did the bill gothard thing where

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_06]: he was like I'm gonna take some stuff out of context and we're just gonna pretend that it works

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I BLP standby

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_06]: yep hey you know if they broke don't fix it I guess so good but yeah you know and as a kid

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean I didn't I didn't tell anybody you know and I I didn't know what to think because

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_06]: even though my parents weren't very like they didn't know that this is going on they had no

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_06]: semblance of knowledge that this was going on I thought if I told them then they'd know that I

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_06]: wasn't worthy and that I was going to hell and all this stuff like you know I wouldn't I would get

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_03]: left behind oh with the rapture right exactly little rapture yeah I wish I could give little you a hug

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_06]: that's horrible you know I really live by like you should be the kind of adult that little you needed

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and I try to be that person all the time like it's so funny my friends um I'm I'm almost I'm

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_06]: almost 30 and I have a shit ton of friends with kids um me and my fiance are child-free

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_06]: but I I love the babies you know I just like giving them back and all my friends when their

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_06]: kids come out of the closet they're like take my little queer child and teach them I'm like whoa

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe just start by telling them they're not going to hell that's a good place to start

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_06]: oh my god yeah so Stacey does not have a stronghold in your heart you're not broken no

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: no I think it's like I can just imagine you like a good little warrior princess for Jesus

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: marching along singing hymns with your bible verse notebook and then you just like walk into chapel

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_04]: one day and you're like but actually I'm going to hell yeah I mean that's like you're completely

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: destroying I know in you know the span of 10 minutes yeah literally oh because I imagine you're

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: like what was going on in your head when you're like you know the this guy is saying man shall not

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: lie with man and then you're like oh like all these things that I've been feeling and I've

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: just been running around and everything was hunky dory and I'm a good little christian kid and and

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: now you know your whole world got turned upside down at seven and now you gay demon yeah I yes

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: exactly that but also props to you for being able to figure out an extrapolate meaning into your own

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_02]: life from it like man shall not lie with man and is king james like your reading comprehension was

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_06]: through the roof hey you know I got it you know but it just it was definitely like

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_06]: some people that have like they're the beginning of their deconstruction is like in their 20s and

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sitting here at seven years old I know like I need to critically think through my entire world view

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_06]: exactly yeah yeah oh my gosh it was it was definitely and it was crazy it's crazy now

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_06]: thinking about it as an older woman you know like we're like you know as a woman just like how did I do

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_06]: that as a child and it got me through things yes but like I went through it so alone like I don't

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_06]: remember ever talking to people about this um and it was very much like a silent journey and

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of talking about about this with my family there so like what the hell like this is not on

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_06]: our radar whatsoever and I'm like oh no that's me the ad it seems to be common with like the stories

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: at least I've heard and people that reach out to us like they have these moments where they're

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: growing up in these highly religious environments and then something clicks for you know a child

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: like it clicks for them like this is not a safe like these people aren't safe so there's

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: something that's not right here and for a seven-year-old to be able to discern that

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they go and they kind of retreat into themselves and and they know like this isn't okay

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: but I can't say anything to anybody and I just kind of have to work through that myself

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: like that's a that's a hard thing to do especially as a kid that's why I think it's so important

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_06]: and like like I said I'm not a mom but I always tell my friends with children listen to your kids

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_06]: like not everything is just a silly little story like or you know you really have to think like okay

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_06]: where did they hear this how did they hear this like it you know you have to do some do diligence

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_06]: with your kid and really like pay attention to what they're saying that was something that you

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_03]: brought up in the early stages of our conversation sky that really stuck out to me just the number of

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_03]: things that you witnessed or experienced and then trying to have those conversations at home

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and like I fully believe your parents had no malicious intent but just the the communication

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_03]: barriers between a young child and an adult and just how adamant you are about listening

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_03]: to kids and believing kids and getting to the bottom of what kids mean to say despite the words

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_03]: they're using because of their limited vocabulary around these issues and I

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_03]: you I say this a lot on the podcast like I don't want to fear monger but sky your story is

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_03]: another example of how we need to be aware of environments even if they're environments that

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: are supposed to be safe because there are bad eggs like you said at the beginning like they're

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: wonderful people and then there are bad eggs and we can't just assume like oh my kid's in

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_03]: a really conservative christian environment ergo they are safe you need to listen to them you need

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_03]: to take their concerns seriously and I love the awareness you bring to that conversation

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: sky and the way you're willing to to talk about it and talk about what you saw and what you

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: tried to say and how it was interpreted by adults so thank you for that thank you thank you so much

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I appreciate that and you know and and thank you for saying like you know your parents didn't

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_06]: like understand yeah like I would I always tell people like I will never blame my parents

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_06]: because they were not given a handbook they were young parents they had me at 23 you know

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_06]: when I was their first kid and they both had rough childhoods you know what I mean and so nobody gets

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_06]: a handbook and says like hey this is what you should look out for this is what you should you know nope

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_06]: nope everybody's situation is so different and I will never ever ever fault my parents

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_06]: for not getting it and that's why I like just spread this awareness so that like

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_06]: you know new parents and other parents either don't make the same mistakes or if they do

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_06]: don't hold it against yourself so horribly because everybody makes mistakes everybody

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_06]: lets things slip it is okay but once you realize now is your chance to talk to your child to

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_06]: make sure that they're okay you know what I mean it's never it's never too late to do that

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah and I think like as somebody that you know I had a good childhood in comparison to

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: some other two other people um and some of these things I'm a little naive to and I think we've

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: talked about that on the podcast but like sleepovers and stuff like I did that a million times

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: nothing bad ever happened so it's hard for me to not be uh so naive with that stuff and then

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: hearing your story and knowing Amanda's story she's definitely more in tune to this and it's something

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that you know if we ever have kids I have to be like super cognizant that you know

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: when a kid says these things what are they actually talking about like is there something

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: underneath that that I need to be paying attention to and my brain may not go directly to like

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that's suspicious and you know as an adult I just have to kind of mature that way that

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you know you got to be a little a little more uh curious about what they're saying and why

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: they're saying it and when they're saying it and those types of things and I think it's very

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: much a no better do better scenario and like today's parents are at such an advantage

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: because people are talking about this stuff now like when I was a kid we didn't talk about this

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: you know oh you didn't even say the word rape you said molested really quietly behind three closed

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_03]: doors you know so I think that that because people are willing to have these conversations now

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and people are so vocal about things like assault and violence and um I think you know

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_03]: things happening in religious contexts there are so many more resources for today's parents to know

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_03]: better and do better so yeah I think I think that that kind of battle cry of listen to your children

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and make sure you're getting to the bottom of what they intend to communicate instead of

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: just the words they're hearing just know as you go forth and try to accomplish that there

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_03]: are resources out there and you can talk to your friends about it like I'm sure

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_03]: parents in the 80s and 90s were not talking to their friends about this stuff because we just kept

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: it hush hush but that's not the case anymore you can talk you can reach out and so I love that about

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_03]: the opportunities today's parents have to know better and do better thank you for coming to my

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_06]: TED talk no I completely agree because you're right they don't have the same vocabulary

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_06]: and on the same note of like parents pay attention um just the schooling in general

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_06]: because this is another thing we kind of talked about is going from a Christian education to a

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_06]: secular education is so daunting because there's so much you don't know yes yeah can you talk

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_03]: about that for you and what that transition into like out of heaven and into hell looked like

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_06]: going from Christian school to public school oh my gosh the secular world um so I was

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_06]: so excited right because um kind of a fun transition story into this going back to kind of sleepovers

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I was not asleepovers but um I went to this one girl's house to sleepover and her parents were

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_06]: super conservative um and so you know I was like want to watch because that's so Raven was like the

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_06]: thing at the time yeah um and now there's a new one where she has kids and I'm old

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what you're talking about but cool oh yeah you know that's thanks guys you know

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_06]: she has magical powers she has you know she has powers from the devil Amanda oh well we can't

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_02]: have that so how dare you want to watch that sky and then you know I'm like oh can we watch that so

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Raven and her mom's like now sweetie she had the Michelle dagger voice uh now sweetie we don't

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_06]: watch that in our house because her powers are not from God honey they're from Satan

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_07]: oh

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_06]: and I remember being like seven or eight just being like what the fuck is she talking about

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly like if I was when I was growing up if someone's parents would have said that to me as a

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: kid you know like you can't watch transformers because I don't know whatever reason their powers

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: aren't from the Almighty God Kyle like cars don't transform that's not from God I would just

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: been like oh my god this is scary like I am not going over to that person's house again

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_06]: their parents are very weird it's a good thing she didn't know that I had cabbage patch dolls or

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_06]: else I would have just been paged right out you might have you might have confiscate them at the door

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah and you had Satan living in your heart too you had a lot going against you Scott

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I know oh my gosh I'm just over here dodging satan's fiery darts left and right

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_06]: right left and right oh my gosh yeah did so did you leave the Christian school after the

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_06]: the principal got fired arrested arrested yes um so my parents reasoning for putting us in the

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_06]: public school is actually just like mostly financial um they didn't know about the whole

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_06]: principal thing till like my mom's in a nail salon three years later and oh wow in our hometown

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_06]: and she was talking to one of the ladies that she grew up with who also her kids also went to

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_06]: that school the same time as I did they were just a little bit older and so yeah years later in

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_06]: a nail salon that's how we actually found out and I've actually tried to look up like court

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_06]: records and all this stuff and it has been so hard to find anything like it's a white

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_06]: putting it on but going from that like to public school like I was pretty excited you know what

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean I was like it's gonna be like Disney Channel I don't do our uniform um but that whole

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_06]: not wearing a uniform part was my detriment um because I look like a total fucking dork

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_06]: it's okay I got teased a little bit you know what I mean hey it's public school everybody gets

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_06]: bullied I'm not special but yeah and then I remember the first day of fourth grade um I am at one

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_06]: of those like where they kind of have like the desk clusters of like four or five kids together

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_06]: and this one kid said god damn and that oh yeah oh is that the first time you'd heard that

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_06]: like yeah like outside of like you know overhearing a movie that my parents were watching or something

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_06]: like this was my first time hearing like a kid say it like we like shut up was a bad word at

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_06]: the Christian school you couldn't even say that you can say stupid like everything was bad

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_06]: you know only give a good report and so you know and so when I heard it kids like god damn like

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_06]: instantly I was like teach him you know and it blew she walks up and she I'm like hey

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_06]: that god damn like in front of this kid I'm tagging on him because this is just one of you

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_06]: no shame I was not aware that public school went by prison rules um not

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_06]: so um and so all these little kids they go no he didn't say it she said it and I'm just like

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_06]: this is Satan's word

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_06]: he lied they're all evil and so like you know I got in trouble I'm crying it's like the

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_06]: first day of school and I'm just I'm I look like a dork I tattled on somebody I'm sobbing

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_06]: already it was just not a good start what grade was this that you started in public school so I was

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_06]: nine okay yeah oh my gosh and so that was super fun and you know being in public school you hear

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_06]: things that you normally wouldn't hear and so oh yes um I oh my gosh it cracked me up Amanda

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_06]: there's one story you were telling about um you heard one of your higher-ups say something

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_05]: about like a fake a bunch of face shots yeah oh the infamous face shot

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I was cackling at work and I'm sure how the coworkers were like what the fuck is

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_06]: John I was just dying because I related to that so much I got in trouble so much growing up

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_06]: after I started public school for the things that I would say because I would hear things at

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_06]: school and not knowing that they were what they meant I would repeat them and so one Easter oh my gosh

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_06]: we go to um my aunt and uncle's house and they're pretty conservative Christians and I walk up to my

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_06]: uncle I had to be like I think I was in like a fifth grade by this point I think it was 10

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_06]: and I walk up to my uncle and I go so my mom's or my friend's mom is a photographer

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_06]: and she saw some horses having sex and the horses seeming went everywhere

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_06]: to my conservative Christian uncle no idea what I was saying oh geez I mean even

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: even for me like I was a good kid but I didn't grow up and like

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: this so this is a story from like even before I even went to church the first time like sixth grade

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and I like I was just a good kid but not religious and in the public school system like

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll learn some shit like kids will say some stuff and I didn't even know what they were saying

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: like I learned things that kids were saying stuff and I was like I don't even know what you're

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about we were like very sexual and I'm not going to repeat what they were

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I live in my personal urban dictionary now and so I can't imagine going from like or being from a

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: highly religious environment or going to like Christian school and being like taught all that

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff as a kid and they're just like hopping right into public school systems with kids that are

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: from all over the place and all different backgrounds and you get exposed to some language and ideas

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_00]: whether you want to or not like you're just crammed with 30 other kids in a classroom and

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and they'll say some stuff told you it's the halls of satan carl it really is why we call it the halls

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: of satan in the coal oh yeah I can't I can't even imagine like as I felt naive to these things

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and I just can't imagine coming from like you know your guys' position there the first time I heard

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_06]: another child say fuck I was just like what we can do that and then I became a little potty mouth

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: like two years later but you know oh yeah that's what happens that's normal halls of satan got to me

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_05]: what can I say exactly satan infiltrated your heart even more sky yeah public school system will

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: do that to you you learn stuff and then you go home and you say it and your parents are like

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: wash your mouth out

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_02]: so you went from you went from that school to a performing arts school right yeah so I stayed in

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_06]: that public school system all the way through high school um and I did have like Christian friends

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I went to like um a kind of like modern you know fun youth church with like a cool band and stuff

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_06]: so it wasn't a real church you know because drums but um you know so I was kind of still like exposure

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_06]: but I was very much still deconstructing um some of the people that I was around that work like

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_06]: quote on quote like you know Christian weren't really they were just using that using religion

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_06]: as kind of a shield to do shitty things and so you know I kind of had like these small things

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_06]: um throughout high school like I went to I went to a Christian camp by accident um

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know that it was a Christian camp my friend brought me and then on the car right there

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_06]: she's like maybe you shouldn't tell anybody that you're bi and don't dress so gawd and I was like

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_06]: but on the bright side um this is actually a really good experience that I had um I did

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_06]: tell my camp counselors like yeah I'm you know I'm I'm all queer you know whatever um and everybody

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_06]: was super accepting and they're like hey like we're not like we're not those Christians you

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_06]: know what I mean so that was actually a good experience um but yes then I went to performing

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_06]: arts college it doesn't exist anymore um really and yeah um I I got in I auditioned my junior

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_06]: year um and I got in for opera vocals and um when I auditioned I had like long black hair no

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_06]: piercings I was I was in um show choir so we all had to look pretty normal you know and by the

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_06]: time I got there I had green hair and a bunch of piercings and I dressed super punk rock

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_06]: and they were like you're here for opera and I'm like yeah and they're like cool

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_06]: you're also doing jazz and rock now and I'm like okay you know I think that's um and when I got there

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I did notice um it wasn't it was a private college but it wasn't like a Christian college um but

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_06]: it wasn't marketed that way at least um and once I got there I realized there was a lot of emphasis

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_06]: on like prayer and godliness and you know like scripture and stuff like that and there was a

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_06]: very large Christian presence there um and that didn't necessarily like bother me um I'm

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_06]: it took a lot of time and healing but I'm the type of person like if somebody says I'll pray for

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_06]: your bless you I see that as an act of love you know what I mean um when I was in high school

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I was a little bit like in my brain not outwardly but in my head I was like God doesn't exist me

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_06]: but um you know yeah after a while you're like okay stop doing that they just mean well but um

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_06]: as I was there I was getting a lot of like really positive attention for um singing and stuff like

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_06]: attention that I didn't necessarily get in high school and um there was a few like directors

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_06]: and stuff that like we all really looked up to because they were good Christian men

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_06]: and um one actually was not anymore but he was actually a choir teacher at a local Christian

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_06]: middle school and so this particular director you know everybody loved him he was like the

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_06]: fan favorite of all the directors and um he had a habit of collecting a few freshman girls every year

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_06]: and you know grooming them and making them feel really special and really important

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_06]: and then eventually sleeping with them um great yeah and none of us really came out about it like I

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a loudmouth anyways so like you know I told some of my friends but at the time it was like a

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_06]: guess what I did because I didn't see how bad it was um because I was I was 17 when I started

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_06]: college I went a month after I graduated high school so I was still super young um and very naive

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_06]: very naive and you know like there is these people that you're supposed to trust giving

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_06]: you attention and you know I dated an RA and that was super bad and blah blah blah and

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_06]: you know but you as a girl that age who's super naive isn't used to getting that kind of attention

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_06]: you soak it up and like I soaked it up and I didn't realize that these men were predators

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_06]: until way later you know and um that schools had an issue with like sexual harassment and

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_06]: things like that um I was actually at a Halloween party at my own apartment I was

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_06]: refeed and raped by a fellow classmate and I had to go to rehearsal the next morning

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_06]: with him in there and I was just so scared I didn't know what to do because I didn't really

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_06]: still understand what happened you know like not gonna lie I was a heavy drinker back then

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_06]: and so like I knew my limit and I knew that I did not hit my limit enough to get black out drunk

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_06]: you know and so I eventually did tell um a few of my friends and they bought a they brought

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_06]: a bunch of boys to that guy's apartment say if you said if you leave this fucking apartment

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_06]: you're gonna get your ass kicked and then they kind of like stayed outside of his apartment um

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_06]: then one of my friends brought me down to the directors and um the staff and you know we

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_06]: talked about it and so the next day there's a huge meeting and they call my two roommates in

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_06]: and myself and then of course you know the guy but just all separately and I found out that they had

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_06]: asked my roommates what I was wearing how much I was drinking if I was promiscuous if I had

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_06]: boys at the apartment often um if I'm part of any church groups and so top it all off I was

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_06]: teaching an lgbtq awareness course out of my apartment for the kids christian kids from

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_06]: midwest that didn't know what anything like yeah you know because part of our college was that we

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_06]: actually go out and teach kids and so you know if somebody has a trans student they'd know how to

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_06]: properly take care of them um and the school did not like that and um so after all this came

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_06]: out the um kid did end up getting kicked out of the school luckily but they wanted me to go to a a

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_06]: and they also did not let me go on tour like I was supposed to and um go with go on tour at

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_06]: the show and go teach and do the workshops and stuff with students because they thought I'd be a risk

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_03]: are you fucking serious I mean I know you are but I'm

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm white hot angry right now and you can't see Kyle's face but we're mad

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean as somebody like you are like the expert in dealing with trauma and people that have

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_06]: like been through traumatic experiences and helping them and stuff like that and you're so trauma

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_06]: informed so I'm sure hearing this is just like what the fuck are they doing this I mean even

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I don't like you know I don't work in that space like Amanda does and haven't

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_00]: interacted with as many people uh that have been traumatized like that and and to me it's still

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_00]: like asking those questions like why like why are you asking that question it doesn't make any sense

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's that you're whoever's asking that is out of line and and I feel like that to me is just

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_03]: coming from a place of common sense uh I guess a lot of people lack common sense then because

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: sadly what sky what you're describing is so ridiculously normal and I first of all thank

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: you for having the courage to come on the podcast and share this I'm really proud of you and grateful

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: for your story and your trust in us to to help facilitate you sharing your story but also

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry they said that to you no one should ever have asked you those questions

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_06]: that was so wrong and and luckily in that moment like me and my roommates knew that that was wrong

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_06]: like they my roommates came to me afterwards and told me what they had asked them and I

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_06]: like one of my roommates um we didn't like necessarily get along super well but like

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_06]: we both had that like even if we don't like each other women protect women you know like

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_06]: we're here together to protect each other we're not enemies and so we just weren't necessarily

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_06]: the same type of person you know and she told me and it made me cry honestly like and that was

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_06]: like one of the first times I had really like cried about what happened because she told me

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_06]: she's like the second they asked me what you were wearing I told them that that was inappropriate

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_06]: and it did not matter what you were wearing and I was just like thank you

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah good for her good for her what a beautiful example of women taking care of each other and

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_03]: educating yes educating into the void of ignorance yeah it sounds like you had some

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_06]: good good friends around you I really did and that was a big positive is you know I always

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_06]: called it the fishbowl because this school only 100 people were accepted every year and so like

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_06]: you're just in this fishbowl of the same people like all year you know in this little aquarium

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_06]: and and luckily you know even though at the time like I wasn't identifying as a Christian I was

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_06]: teaching a class about you know queer terms and things like that out of my apartment with my

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_06]: other queer friend and like there were so many reasons for a lot of the people there to

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_06]: like dislike me or I guess kind of judge me and in that space I didn't feel very judged by like a

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_06]: lot of like some of my fellow students sure but like not all of them you know and and that was nice

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_06]: and I'm sure that it being a performing arts school also kind of helped because you know

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_06]: a lot of us are queer but yeah and there were definitely things that

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_06]: I wish that um a lot of us girls had come out about sooner but we were just so young and naive

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_06]: and didn't know that it was wrong you know like when you're 16 dating a 24 year old

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_06]: you don't think that it's weird until you're 24 and then you look back and you're like oh my god

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_03]: you know yeah yeah and can I ask like tying this back to you know for instance the teacher

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_03]: at your elementary school who showed you porn magazines like would you say you were conditioned

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of to being groomed at that point in your life or it was normalized to you

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_06]: with what the what the director did totally um I think that I was kind of the perfect

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_06]: person to be groomed um I was very insecure most of my life um just coming from being that awkward

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_06]: kid going to public school for the first time and you know I was chubby I had depression at a very

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_06]: young age and like dressed very alternatively once I started like middle school and stuff and so

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_06]: and kids are mean you know kids are always gonna be kind of shitheads you know yep um yep but I was

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_06]: super super insecure um growing up and it's funny because like when I talk about that to people that

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_06]: knew me it's such the opposite but I'm not like extroverted introvert we're like you know um

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_06]: and I think that I just wanted that attention so badly that I was I was super easily groomed

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_06]: because I just wanted to be a part of the club I wanted to be a part of something and even if

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_06]: that thing was bad I was just like happy to be there and it took years and years and years for

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_06]: me to get over that and stop people pleasing so much and now I'm working on the um whole

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_06]: opposite side of that where now I'm a little too get the fuck away from me and I think it'd be a bit nicer now

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh it works you overcorrect and then you gotta settle in the meeting but I over corrected like a

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_06]: motherfucker I have a few more interesting pictures it was so funny we actually quick sidetrack we

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_06]: went to New Orleans two weeks ago and my mom um did a second line parade and like paid to have it

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_06]: filmed and stuff for her and my mom's step dad's five-year anniversary and my dumb ass thought

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_06]: we were watching a parade not being in the parade and me having this beautiful gorgeous amount of

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_06]: social anxiety I there's like they tried to clip me out of the video as much as possible

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_06]: I looked like the only angry person that's ever been in a parade ever

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_06]: so upset like Brian kept laughing at me and he's like sky subtitles fix your face

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_06]: so yeah I'm over corrected a little bit from the people pleasing but now we're trying to

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_06]: you know but yeah no I definitely was just exactly it's all part of the journey the journey's

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: wonderful sometimes it's kind of funny well and you know just what you were saying about

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: how like how you describe yourself during that time when the director in particular was grooming you

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: like this is uh there we shouldn't need to preach it's not the victim's fault it's not

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the survivor's fault but this is another point toward perpetrators are cunning predators are

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: cunning they know what to look for they know who the vulnerable targets are and so I guess

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: for our listeners just another another gentle reminder to log that away that

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: predators are cunning and and they're good at what they do and they know what's gonna work

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_03]: in terms of grooming and eventually preying upon another person so yeah I'm I'm really grateful

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that you shared that part of your story with our listeners I think it's it's important to know

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: these things it's important to talk about these things it's important to shine a spotlight on them

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and just like fucking call it out for what it is and um yeah I'm definitely like abusers are able

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_06]: to do what they do because they make you feel good first they don't come out of the door

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_06]: hitting and swinging no they make you trust them they make you love them they make you

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_06]: look up to them and make you feel like they're your safe space and that is when the abuse will

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_06]: start happening when you fully trust them and they think okay cool this person isn't going to

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_06]: you know go tell somebody else this person is going to keep this between us this person's

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_06]: going to try to keep me safe because they think I'm keeping them safe and it's just

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_06]: like people don't realize that like I recently was talking about um some abuse that I went

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_06]: through in a former relationship and this woman super uninformed says well if you stayed that long

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_06]: it's your fault and it's just like honey like the first couple years it's not like I you know we

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_06]: were together one week and he started abusing me like no this it's it happens over time it grows

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and a lot of the times the victim either feels like they deserve it or feels like they can

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_06]: change the person or feels like their situation isn't even that bad because they might have dealt

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_06]: with something worse before and it's just like no like reach get out of there you know it's hard

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah no preach I love it and that I guess that'll kind of ties into the the theme that

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you and I discussed and then you and Kyle and I discussed just about like how how you go from

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_03]: having your trust broken at a young age to to living and thriving in the world as an adult

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_03]: where trust is important in in life and in relationships and what you were saying about

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_03]: you know over corrections because I feel like I've been there and I've done that too in terms of like

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_03]: okay I trusted that didn't work out well now I'm not gonna trust anyone and that's safer

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm just gonna hang out over here and then you get into life and you get into adulthood

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and you're like oh actually in practice this doesn't work out so great

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and then you've got to like bring it back so you you shared with us that you moved to a rural area

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and had some experiences that have kind of helped you in your healing journey would you

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_06]: be willing to share about that yes so much yes so um when COVID hit um my whole life

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_06]: turned upside down I moved from LA into middle America um totally landlocked and at first my big

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_06]: thing that I was kind of nervous about was like knowing that I kind of have an alternative look

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_06]: um I'm very loud and not spoken about the person that I am um you know and not to offend anybody

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_06]: it's just hey this is who I am if you don't like it that's okay if you like it cool um

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_06]: so I was a little bit weary and then I moved from the small town that I was living into an even smaller

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_06]: town in middle America commit um yeah under three under 300 people five churches were in there we got it

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_06]: okay and so that was also kind of a worry of mine you know being an open practitioner of witchcraft

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_06]: my fiance is a pagan shaman you know we're not exactly part of the big holy book club and

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_06]: when I moved here um I didn't know what to expect really but as I started talking to people and

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_06]: really getting to know the people that live here I realized they don't care at all like

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_06]: you know we have conversations about religion that are

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_06]: awesome I love having conversations about religion in the the view of like figuring out why people

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_06]: believe things or why people think the way they do I think that's super interesting and super

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_06]: like personal and you know and not in the way that we're trying to change each other's views

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_06]: just understand each other more and I've had a lot of those conversations here and um one of

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_06]: my favorite stories is it's kind of a good and kind of a bad story and I've told you guys this before

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_06]: but um when I first started working um out here I was attacked by a man at work he tried to pull me

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_06]: into the bathroom nobody else was working um and then this little old lady that she drives

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_06]: the Amish around for work because we have a bunch of Amish out here and um she doesn't normally

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_06]: come in very late but that day she just had something telling her to come in and so she walks

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_06]: through the door and the man sees her and runs out sees this little tiny little 80-some-year-old

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_06]: woman she's just the cutest little thing and you know she's like what just happened like are you

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_06]: okay and stuff and so the funny thing about her is ever since she met me she was trying

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_06]: to convert me she was you know let's go to this women's Baptist conference I heard you

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_06]: sing maybe you and your sweetie want to come play guitar and banjo at church and I'm like I'm sorry

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_06]: love I don't know any hymns yeah and you know and she's just always you know well you know

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Jesus said and God said I just I'm like oh you know I love that but for me it's something different

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_06]: and we can understand it except each other she wasn't ever mean about it it was just she was

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_06]: trying so hard to get me to go to church and so you know after this happens um you know she

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_06]: was the one to come in and kind of like save the day kind of and she she was telling me she's like well

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_06]: God brought me to you and I told her I said look for you it is God it is Jesus and that is

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_06]: wonderful for me it's just the universe it's kindness that I paid into the world that's coming back to

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_06]: me through you and we can both believe those two different things and they can both be true for

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_06]: both of us and that's okay you know and realizing that I had that train of thought to me was like

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_06]: oh my god like wow that's that's healing you know what I mean like being able to have that

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_06]: conversation and just have it be love and not resentment or judgment and thinking about all

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_06]: the other Christian people that have tried to use God as a way to manipulate me she really is using

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_06]: it for love and so that's kind of like my favorite like wrap-up story about the place that I live

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_06]: and like how I'm kind of on this journey now of you know I'm not perfect every day you know

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I still have to catch myself in thought sometimes when I see somebody out wearing

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_06]: a t-shirt that's has something Christian on it I have to stop myself from thinking something kind

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_06]: of negative about them or about them judging me you know and it's it's always going to be a journey

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_06]: but I think starting it and like realizing that everybody is just themselves and different

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and you don't have to keep religious people under this big umbrella of good or bad you know

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_06]: either way it's judging people and that's what we don't want to do you know we want to be like Jesus

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I mean there's something very healing about just having a genuine good human interaction

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and being able to see like this person is way different from me or maybe even like your earlier

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: story with the girl at school and you know you didn't get along but she was still there

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and said like that's not right um and you know this with this lady you know she's been trying

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: to convert you for a long time and then you know she just had a genuine good human

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: interaction with you and there's a lot of power in that of seeing that you know in general like

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: people can be good um and people from all different backgrounds and and religions and

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you know different parts of the world like they're you just need to have those experiences

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and sky I love I love how you're healing I think it's inspiring it's helped me think through how

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm healing around things like trust and and how I view people and judgment and we did not plan

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: this with the timing but I think it's it's kind of incredible timing that we're talking about

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: how we view each other and and how we trust and accept each other and see the good in each other

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: during a really potentially contentious time in our country here in the US with the election coming

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: up and people are like we're very polarized here in the US and I think it's very easy to look

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: at people and think like oh they're evil and rotten or they definitely have satan in them

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever the case may be as we as we disagree about really profound and important things but

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: you know I think what you said is about like we can lump people under good and bad and it's still

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: like it's judgment either way and the place you've gotten to is where you're just trying

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: to understand what people think and meet them there and accept that and you're not trying

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: to change them you're just trying to learn them and I think that's such a powerful thing and I think

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that if more of us could do that it would be really good for the world definitely and you know I

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm grateful to the people here that accepted me and know that they're different from me

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_06]: and you know that I'm a little crazy sometimes but they still accept me and I think that's

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_06]: wonderful because it's so funny moving from a place like with just such a melting pot like Los Angeles

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and it wasn't just a straight shot to my little you know bumfuckie just rural town but it was

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_06]: definitely a great it's still a great journey and I mean we've talked about this a little bit

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_06]: before but because of your podcast was the reason why I found out that you can be undiagnosed

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_06]: of PTSD I had no idea and so that's what made me want to go um actually go through therapy and get

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_06]: get therapy and so I'm currently in CPT and one of my big um what they call a stuck point

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_06]: is trust and so I love that we're talking about this because you know I'm not coming

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_06]: here preaching as like this totally healed person that's like I'm perfect and I don't judge

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_06]: anybody you know like it's always going to be a little bit of a battle and sometimes that battle

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_06]: is going to be easy and sometimes it's going to be hard you know and but you really just have to put

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_06]: yourself in that perspective of like I don't understand everything I don't understand everybody

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_06]: and I think back to my little self when I was crying because people were atheists and they

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_06]: were going to hell you know what I mean and that wasn't because I hated them it was because

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I really loved them and some people have a really funny way of expressing their love

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_06]: but you know we just kind of gonna understand like it's not all malicious and when it is

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_06]: we have the opportunity to say that's just that person being an asshole and it's not

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: everybody that thinks that way right and I think anything that's human is going to be messy

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and everything we're talking about today is human and so I guess I'm curious then your thoughts like

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: just how do we go about healing and trust wisely because there are times when we shouldn't trust

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: people and there are times when we should trust people and I think that's why this is so hard

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and again human and messy and if you're comfortable talking about it I don't know if I

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: would even have a good answer for this if someone asked me but like how are you balancing that now

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: in your life like the discernment of when to trust and who to trust so that's actually been

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_06]: like something that I've really really been like thinking about and working on lately

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_06]: and you know it's not going to be there's no right answer for everybody

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_06]: and this is just like for me personally I realized that because of my inability to trust

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I have missed out on a lot in friendships and relationships there are friends that you know

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_06]: because I couldn't trust and I devalued my own personal self in friendships I didn't think

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_06]: that I was that important to them I wasn't there like I could have gone to graduations or little

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_06]: parties and stuff that in my mind I was like you know because I wasn't fully trusting I didn't think

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_06]: that I needed to and like I feel like I just missed out on so many things and realizing that

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_06]: has made me try actively to like really let people in and not just a an acquaintance sort of way

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_06]: like I am so good at making acquaintances but I'm horrible at making super close friends

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_06]: and that's something that I've been trying to like really work on and like get really like

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_06]: actually personal with people and not so surface level and like really like follow through with

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_06]: those friendships and relationships um and then when it comes to like you know who to trust

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_06]: who not to trust stuff like that I think personal experience and just trusting yourself is a huge

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_06]: part of it um when I moved here I came here with a clean slate nobody knew anything about me nobody

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_06]: knew anything about my past and so I treated everybody the same way um I didn't listen like you

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_06]: know there's town gossip and oh this person has always been this way this person's always been

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_06]: that way and if I let those judgments get in the way of me being able to try and trust

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_06]: that person and let them in my life I would have a few less friends a few less acquaintances and like

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_06]: a few less good experiences because like same thing with like religion and stuff like that just

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_06]: because I had a bad experience with it doesn't discount all the people that have amazing experiences

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_06]: with it and so when I think when it comes to trust it just so it's such a gray area topic

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_06]: because you should trust yourself but also ask yourself like why am I trusting this am I trusting it

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_06]: because they're a religious person am I trusting this person because they compliment me and make me

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_06]: feel good inside or am I trusting this person because they actually care about me and actually

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_06]: care about what I'm going through and things like that you know and so it's it's it can be hard

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_06]: and I don't think anybody's ever gonna get it right their whole life you know like we're always

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_06]: gonna have that friend that we trust that stabs us in the back or you know something like that

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_06]: and it's just I think sometimes we can guard our hearts a little too much if we've been hurt

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_06]: and it just stops us from having good experiences because we're so afraid of having the bad

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: ones you know what I mean I do yeah yeah thank you for sharing wise wise words to live by I love that

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's you a beautiful a beautiful way to kind of wrap up a conversation that wow we've

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_03]: you've been you've been through a lot in your life and I feel like we covered so much

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: interesting sometimes traumatic sometimes hilarious ground in our conversation with

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: you today but what what a beautiful summary of what you've taken from all of that and what you've

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: made of it in your own mind and heart and life I love it I love it so much thank you and there's

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_06]: always going to be growth you know I might listen to this episode in a year and be like

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: huh well actually yeah I do that all the time that's yeah unfortunately I don't think people

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: understand that and and I say that in the sense that like people grow and change and if you're going

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: to go back and like you said this 10 years ago it's like yeah I thought that was real back then

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and I learned you know I know now that like that was dumb uh totally and you know you know sometimes

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that gets weaponized but I think that's it's just so true at least the people that are actively

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to improve themselves and and you know work through their traumas or biases or whatever it is

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: like you're gonna I'm sure you're gonna listen to this like next year I'm like

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you know even if that's just like I came so far from since then

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: or you know I don't I don't believe something anymore uh you know it's just I think that's

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: part of being a human like you just kind of grow and you learn new stuff and you take that and you

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: apply it and you know form a new opinion so it's just kind of yeah I mean it's just this normal I guess

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah I completely agree and I think some people get stuck and they don't they don't want to say

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I was wrong it's okay and like just normalizing that normalizing being able to be wrong

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and change your mind yes yeah yeah I think it's a huge step if you can if someone calls you out on

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff like that and you're like well you said this last year you're like well I I uh I've grown

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: since then or I learned something new and I don't believe that anymore like yeah super easy way to

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: just acknowledge you know you're you had a bad idea or you you changed your thoughts like

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you grew you learned um yeah and I think there shouldn't be any shame in just saying like

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know that's what I thought and I know better now yeah definitely yeah well we've

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_03]: loved getting to know you through this whole process you're so fun by the way you're a very

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: engaging person to talk to and uh I'm grateful for your story I'm horrified that you went through

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: the things you described but I just I love who you've become as you've grown into you know I I still

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: think of 29 is young like you like can you imagine at 59 the stories you're gonna have about life and

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: growth and the journey and um but yeah you've just you've done such a wonderful work within

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: yourself and I love your approach uh as you talk about these things and the message you have

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: so thanks for sharing thanks for reaching out initially so that we could get to know you and

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_03]: do this and yeah it's just been such an honor to have you on the show thank you and you know

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_06]: listening to your guys's podcast has helped me grow as like a person and so when I messaged

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_06]: you guys that initial time I didn't even expect a response I was just gonna be happy if you

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_06]: all read it and got a laugh out of it and so when we were talking and you were like oh yeah

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_06]: no do you want to be on the podcast I was like what you know and I think it's so amazing that you

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_06]: guys are giving a platform to people that normally wouldn't have one to talk about things that

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_06]: we're still getting used to talking about you know and it's just I mean we talked about this

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_06]: and some of our conversations just getting individual stories out and having people be able to like

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_06]: relate to them and maybe learning grow from that and yeah and all just support each other

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's such a beautiful thing because like you said Kyle we are all consistently always growing

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_06]: and we should be and we should be kind of helping each other along the way if we can you know yeah

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_06]: totally agree yeah thank you thank you so much I could try

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it's been a joy all right well yeah thanks thanks for being on the show

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: today Sky and we'll be back next week on Monday

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: thanks for listening to another episode of the cult I left behind until next time don't join a cult

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: if you enjoyed this podcast please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode