55 - Protection of the...Seed?

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast. I'm your host Amanda Briggs and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the IBLP cult with you might know from the dugger family

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs, I'm Amanda's husband and I have not heard most of these stories before so stay tuned and we'll all get traumatized together

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, welcome back to the next episode, what do you have for today, Amanda?

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I've just stopped the dozen make sense.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm shocked!

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I thought we might try to leave time to answer maybe too, listen to our questions at the end

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been...I've been horrible about getting videos done usually I'm just you know ripping my hair out doing my assignments

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a busy...

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_06]: It's been a busy...

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_06]: It's been a busy couple weeks

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But I figure if we're still at least answering a couple of them in the episodes we're still

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: We're still getting to them and they're important the listener questions are important and we want you guys to keep sending them in

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So we need to keep answering them

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Point of accountability for us

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe mostly me because I am the one who is tired and running around with my hair and fire all the time he says

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But this this is gonna be interesting today and also weird

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we're looking at marriage per page number five which is protection

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But all we're really gonna talk about I think is seed

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Seaman

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I was gonna guess the minstrel cycle

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that might come up absent it's might too who knows

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just looking through headings and

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like okay protections so I'm like are we gonna talk about the week or vessel like how are we gonna

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: talk about marriage as a purpose or protection being a purpose of marriage and instead it's just about

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_03]: seed and godly seed

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Your seed has to be godly fellows. Okay. I say fellas on purpose because that's what bill would have said

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_03]: men males

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: You better check your seed make sure it's godly. Oh, otherwise if you're married you're not fulfilling your purpose of protection

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm. So so this section starts out real strong

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: In terms of not making any sense at all

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: When a man enters into the marriage covenant he is thereby pledging his strength resources and life to his wife

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: There is nothing about what the wife is pledging because again women don't matter in the IBL p-cult

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So we just skip women and go straight to

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_03]: When the couple gives themselves to each other

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone just brace yourselves here for a moment and

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: God blesses that union with children

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's that's how your rewarded. That's how you know you're doing a good job

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You have children

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Because infertility again is just not an issue according to bill if you

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Do all the godly things and god blesses you with children?

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It is a rewarding responsibility for parents to give whatever sacrifices are necessary to protect those children

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's about all we have to say about protection other than for this purpose god has placed within men a strong

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Protective drive

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It is because of this motivation that a man will go off to war and lay down his life to defend his family because women obviously won't do that

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the term mama bear

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't even exist like women are obviously not going to lay down their lives to defend anyone they love and I mean we obviously also don't go off to war

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You know like we don't serve in the military my whole military career is in fact a farce

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: According to this document

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Because only men can do that

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That's all there is about protection because the verse principle of protection is actually a godly seed

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Since the fall of Adam and Eve it has been God's desire to raise up a godly seed at each step of history

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Satan has sought to destroy this seed

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Guys he's coming for your seaman now since he knows that through a god will accomplish his program in the world

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_05]: whole program now

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_03]: The severe discipline of unfaithfulness and marriage under Old Testament law and the public shame attached to remage and New Testament teachings

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Our strong confirmation of the need for lifelong commitment in marriage

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So somehow that's about protection, but it's just you know the principle of godly seed

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so then what is God's hidden design for protection?

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't only imagine the hidden design is life on commitment to marriage

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that we're so hidden in our culture

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, but it's also don't really see how that relates to protections specifically exactly

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But bill they'll knows what he's doing here because

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Bill knows everything obviously so yeah

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Live on commitment to marriage after god judge is rolled by scattering its families throughout the Babylonian empire

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: He sent a prophet to exhort them to raise up a godly seed

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So that this remnant could be used of him in the further program which he had planned for them

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Program again. Oh my god remnant

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I heard that route words so many times growing up like oh we are the godly remnant

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Here in the IBLP called you families raising your children in 80i using only wisdom booklets

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You are the remnant you are the godly remnant you were all that is left. There was a lot of pressure

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: In part of this remnant

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_05]: That sounds like super cold. You're like you are the chosen ones you are the only

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Survivors of I don't know what like the remnants of godly seed ancient really holy seam in there

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_05]: You guys think you had some like pure bloodline that you're now following to I don't know

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Be the quiver full movie

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Is there nothing in there about like is this emotional protection or physical protection or you're just protecting your seeds spiritual protection

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm inferring from this even though it is not clearly stated

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't heard anything otherwise just walking around protecting your seed

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: My Kyle you have to because how does Satan attack god's design of protection

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Satan's goal all caps scatter the families

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Dude around in me 2864 and that's all it is then it quotes that

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: The Lord shall scatter the among all people. Why does it sound more like

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Protection of a bloodline than anything else like that's all it sounds like

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's no other reference to what that would be but

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean when I hear that that's what it sounds like a protection of a bloodline

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_05]: But that's not

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Fall find it all well we're gonna talk about bloodlines as it turns out. Oh, yeah, okay getting ahead of god's plan

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: First we have to ask why is a godly seed essential

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: We need to Holy Seed God's kingdom honor three choirs a godly seed

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Susanna Wesley was the 25th child of doctor and misses

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember how to say though last name

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Susanna's 15th child was John Wesley a leader of the great awakening in England and America and the founder of the Methodist movement

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Charles Wesley was the 18th child of Susanna Wesley

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna come back to Susanna Wesley

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Charles was also a leader in the Methodist movement he wrote 6,000 hymns many of which we still sing today

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So Susanna Wesley was lauded in the cult. I've never even heard that name

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I forget the whole thing even though I probably read 15 biographies of her as required reading as a female in the cult

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But she was a woman who had a bajillion kids and they went on to do great things for the Lord

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So obviously she was wonderful

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_05]: You know saying that always easy love

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_05]: The Lord

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_04]: So Chris said it

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_03]: She was always late. I don't know

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Not spiritual but then she would talk about the Lord

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_05]: That also basically I think it sounds like the Dougher lady. What her name is

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so Susanna Wesley like

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Prayed a lot. I'm trying to remember from her autobiographies like she disciplined her kids a really specific way that was super godly

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: She did her mornings in a really specific way that was super godly

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03]: She did her like quiet time with the Lord in a super specific way which was really godly and we all aspire to be

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And most importantly she pumped out a lot of babies for Jesus

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Which we were all supposed to aspire to do as well. So she was like it

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: She was the thing

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she was maybe one of the only women that mattered

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Ever in the cult. I mean Ruth was also pretty great

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That was about it Ruth and Susanna Wesley oh and then um

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man. There was like some missionary wife and then another lady who

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Cory 10 boom

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Which I don't like that the cult

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man that's that's a topic for another day because Cory 10 boom was

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: A holocaust

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Well she was a concentration camp survivor

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She helped hide Jews and got caught and got sent to a concentration camp and she survived it

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And then somehow Bill Gothard got his hands on her and like pulled her into the cult. Oh no

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Which I'm sad about because I think she was kind of a bad ass bitch in her own right before the cult

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So those are the women we're allowed to know about

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: The only ones that ever matter

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Just see

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Susanna Wesley things for going down memory lane with me there not sure how Susanna Wesley is

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Protecting the seed but she made a lot of babies so somehow that relates

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: How how has a godly seed enriched the world?

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you think Kyle?

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Some pure Christian bloodline

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Just about God promises to make the seed of those who fear him mighty upon earth

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we have another huge family that proves this Jonathan Edwards was

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_03]: The only son among 11 children

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_03]: He was the recognized leader of the great awakening in America his godly life and ratings helped to usher in

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_03]: The great missionary movement of the 19th century or the great colonizing movement of the 19th century

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So another reason you need to have lots of kids apparently some of them will like go forth and

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Evangelize the nations

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm curious if he was special because he was the only male child out of

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Have many you said 11 or 13 ever like

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Was that you ever see that in the cult where like families had

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Only one boy or no boys

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: There were some of them were no boys have to have work. I don't remember

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Seems like a

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Seems like that would be a very

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting dynamic that would be happening in that it was immediate family wait

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I do remember I'm thinking of one family right now

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of like pride and prejudice with Mrs. Bennett trying to marry off all of her daughters

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: They they gave a lot of those like very amped up vibes of like must marry them all off now

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_04]: What am I gonna do with all these female children?

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that makes sense

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: The far reaching influence of a godly family

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_03]: 1000

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: 400

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Direct descendants of Jonathan Edwards

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But guy we just learned about who is the only boy

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So up a ton of his descendants were traced don't know

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_03]: How or why but they were traced

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: To determine their influence in shaping early American history among those descendants were the following

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Three college presidents 65 college professors 100 lawyers 30 judges

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: 66 medical doctors and 80 holders of public office including three senators three governors and one vice president of the United States

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_03]: How does this relate to protection we don't know

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But they really just wanted to talk about how big families are helpful and if they're godly see

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_03]: They're gonna go be judges which is what the cult wants and

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Public office

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean that sounds the time more into the old

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_05]: What's the movement called Joshua Johnston

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Jonathan that wasn't right the Johnston ad words

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, it was like super into genealogy and was like trying to literally track down these bloodlines and then like recruit them into the cult

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds like something you would do

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Does anyone know did he do that that sounds like something bill would do

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But then we have to ask why does God hate divorce? Why do you think Kyle?

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Is someone who's been divorced why does God hate what you did? Oh

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And what I did is someone who's also been divorced

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I see it has the deal with breaking some spiritual agreement or covenant

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_05]: This isn't marriage full speed between like two people and god

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Well wouldn't that be nice, but it's not that at all okay God hates divorce because it decreases the potential of a godly seed

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Does it though?

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like it just gives you a fork in the road there and you're gonna have some godly seed over here

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a godly seed over there

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_04]: How many different paths are you going down?

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_05]: How many times he get remarried

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Many times are you planning I'm getting remarried

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: My Kyle how does God protect children of a parent is not a Christian

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: God promises to protect the children if you are married to a non-believer

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's it that's what we got for protection that is the whole enchilada

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't get divorced people not not because you're like, you know, breaking bowser

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's because your seamen will be less holy. I don't understand that

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Like

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that the cursing you if you get divorced like your your seed is now tainted and I guess so Kyle maybe it's a good thing

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't have children

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Because your seed isn't only yes, it is in godly

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Should have put that on my profile you should have put that on your dating world file

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Best of course does not have godly seed

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_04]: All you single people out there just try it just just as a science like a social science experiment for me

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And then please let me know how it goes just but like has been divorced does not have godly seed

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And just see what happens just see what happens. I mean you might draw out the crazies, but you know

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess that would be entertaining if you know what this means please do not message me

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man so did you learn anything about how you're supposed to be protecting me in our marriage?

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean you already failed because you got divorced before me

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So you couldn't even bring me godly seed

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Tucking me in this marriage I know I mean if you keep pulling that string like what is life worth after getting divorced like you have no purpose

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing apparently

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this is just you know

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: What is my life worth my military services and not are because I'm a woman

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: My marriage just doesn't matter because I'm divorced in your divorce and we're married and you don't have godly seed

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have I can't have children so I can't even be part of spreading your ungodly seed

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Or multiplying your ungodly seed or whatever he calls it that might be a good thing

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Band-in bills. It's right because it's not me. That's right. That's right. I

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't know how he calls up with some of this shit some of this stuff is just crazy

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Some of it just doesn't make any sense and there's like this stuff which is like

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_05]: What what was the point here why why is that even in the curriculum you just needed some filler space or

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_05]: What were you trying to accomplish there is it scare tactics for getting divorced or not getting divorced

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Like what was the objective I don't know control

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Powering control is usually what I come back to you. Yeah, but that's not

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_05]: What would that even be controlled only thing I can think of is that this is like an anti divorce tactic

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_05]: But then that was only like one little part of it at the end. I know what else would it be is tainting seeds? How do you taint your seed

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_05]: You get divorced

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_05]: The slowly or you're not godly enough in the first place. Okay, so you need to be I'm not a creature Christian and don't get divorced ever

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but if you're not a Christian and you have kids God will still protect your seed

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Even though it is tainted. There's a fall back plan there. Yeah, I'm just saying yeah, don't hear that too much

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like in

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll be all piece of well there. They're not one out of it

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess you can't make the rule so strict that everybody stumbles and falls and then they're out

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_05]: You gotta give them an out or pass sometimes

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to know what I realized this week right before we started recording this book is called

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Research in principles of life advanced seminar textbook

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Research he's calling this

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: This is complete pile of bullshit research

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I am personally

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_05]: We haven't heard anything in there. That's

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Makes it seem like it was research or there was no like hypothesis or like a

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Study of 5,000 people like there was no data to back in here this up and then it was

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_05]: God's him to sign

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's just random stories that people send in

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_05]: All right well you could wrap up the craziness with that

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so we got a question on the website from Kerry let's see what Kerry has to say

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, all thanks for doing the podcast. My name's Kerry

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had a question for you. I was wondering what the quotes stand on

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: The medical community and medicine was like when you were growing up

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you go to doctors? Did you get vaccines that sort of thing?

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks keep on doing what you're doing

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for the question Kerry. That's a good one

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I did have vaccines growing up. I think all my siblings did

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We did have

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the annual

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Check-ups, I think and then I think when my brother started playing sports they were required to go get a sports physical

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't like that part of life. I think was pretty normal

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I've mentioned that I have that huge memory of my younger brother being hospitalized and having surgery

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_03]: At no point do I remember they're being like shame for using medical doctors for that. I mean,

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Rick and Chris went to doctors. I think Chris was on

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Medication for various and sundry things Rick had medical procedures yet surgery at least once that I remember

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe twice Chris had all of her births in the hospital. I don't think she ever did a home birth

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And the quote you were a lot more holy if he did a home birth

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But she didn't and I don't remember that being like

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_03]: frowned upon in any significant way. I mean bill brought in

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Doctors who've lost their licenses to do procedures on his

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_03]: on his gothard girls

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And when I started having medical issues when I was a kid like a

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Experiencing abuse, I always take into the doctor so many times trying to get to the bottom of it

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think generally like

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: My ex husband grew up in a family where they did not believe in doctors if you went to a doctor it was a sin

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_03]: like his younger sister

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I think when she was like three

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: They're dad backed over her in his work truck and broke her collarbone

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And they had the elders of their weird little church go over and annoying her with oil and pray for her

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Their family wasn't in there. They weren't in the iBLP cult. They were in a different i would call it a cult

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because yeah, it meets all the criteria but yeah

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So we weren't like that

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_03]: If you know my brother broke his arm he went got a cast

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I think one of my other brothers maybe broke

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Something else they went got a cast like

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It it really wasn't a big deal at least in my family to go to the doctor

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And you see that with any other families like was that cult-wide like doctors were okay vaccines are okay

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Or was it just kind of up to the individual?

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was up to the individual families because I feel like there were a lot of families who were like well

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_03]: We're just gonna take a lot of vitamins and supplements and like not need the doctor

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess I'm not sure if that was because they didn't have medical insurance or if that was because

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: That was like their faith belief

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_03]: There was a lot of weight in the cult on like if you

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Eat our special holy bread

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Then you won't ever get sick like you know there was there was pressure to do certain dietary things

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Usually because there was a monetary kickback

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_03]: For the cult but I don't I don't remember doctors being like prohibited or in any way

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: found upon and

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have vivid memories of going to get all my like shots and everything so

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You was pretty

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty okay. I'm also curious about that like it just seems like one of those things that a cult would do is like no doctors

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_05]: If for no other reason then we have to hide our people and the abuse from

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Medical professionals that are required to

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Like mandatory reporters or

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Any sort of outside person that's gonna like raise an eyebrow at like this is weird

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think just from that

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_05]: standpoint is it to me it's weird that you guys were allowed to go to that doctor

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can I can absolutely see that and that's why I thought it was such a good question carry because

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: You would think we wouldn't be allowed to

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_03]: To have those experiences but I don't remember ever being asked if I was safe at home or anything like that even when I kept

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Presenting with UTIs and stuff as a kid

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So I was also a long time ago. I don't know if

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: If there were that many trauma informed doctors back that there I mean was me honest there are

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Then many trauma informed doctors these days it's getting better it is and I deeply appreciate that but

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: There's there's still a ways to go and some of those categories and and back in the

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: 80s and 90s when I always a kid it was

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean I have no memories of trauma informed anything with the medical community

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, thanks for answering that question Amanda. We've got another one from Michaela

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not super comfortable with faith voice recording but I am doing it because you specifically asked for it on the podcast

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So here we go

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I just found the podcast this week and have been binging it properly and then I'll see it melt

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I grew up I BLP adjacent

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely went to basic seminar the gothards at teaching significantly in fact in my parents and my family

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I am the fourth of 10 kids

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely home schools all the things

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Much of my community growing up were full blown I BLP people

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I am currently nearing my 30s and I'm deconstructing and helping my siblings deconstruct a lot of the

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: imaging teachings and experiences that came along with iBLP

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story and validating the fucked upness of being

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: female in that world

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely inspired me and encouraged me to continue my healing journey

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and learning how to honor the experiences of my younger self and the works

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But I currently do as a social worker

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: My question is I'm curious if you had any experience with bright lights growing up

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: bright I believe stood for being radiant in

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Goblinist holiness and testimony it was a discipleship group

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That was started. I believe by iBLP members

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: My sisters were heavily involved in the

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: conferences and groups and all of that growing up

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a lot a lot of a big part of my world and exposure to iBLP teachings

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was curious if that ever overlapped with your experience at all

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for the podcast thanks for sharing and being so open about

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: everything it's definitely

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: feel less alone

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and my experiences as a weird home schooled

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: person

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to figure out life so I appreciate it

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for the question, Michaela and thank you for taking the leap of faith to leave of voice message

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And also thank you for your work as a social worker y'all

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_03]: In so many ways keep the world going around and you're underpaid and overworked and

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very very grateful for the work y'all do and the sacrifices the people in your field make to take care of others

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's far too often a thankless job

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_03]: So to you and to all of the other social workers

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are part of our podcast community

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I love you and I'm grateful for you and I hope that

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You are reminded of that and in many different ways this week

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Reminded that the work you're doing really matters and that you are making a difference for people

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I was not personally involved in bright lights, but I had to look it up

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I knew I had heard of it

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And it does like on their website it talks about

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: How the founder I think her name is Sarah like

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Notice that there was a lack of discipleship for like preteen girls and the things she wish she had known and

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So she started doing discipleship and then it just like grew and grew and grew and grew and now when you go to

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: When you google or at least when I googled bright lights ministry it came up with

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Tomorrow's four fathers and corporate it

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting and then bright lights

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Is part of that or is that the whole thing?

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know I think so but when you go to meet our team

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It starts with herald and Rebecca

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Malie Molly

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And it says that they've been involved in Christian work since 1970 they began homeschooling in 1990

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to see their children become a team and serve God it talks about all their kids

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_03]: In addition to being an elder and teacher at Cedar Rapids Bible Chapel a herald spends his time

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Decitling men

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Evangelizing lost and leading the tomorrow's forefathers ministry

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Rebecca is the

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Guess what?

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Encourage her

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Who takes care of cow was practical needs behind the scenes

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then okay, so then we have Andrew and

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Sarah

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Hancock

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so we start with Andrew

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Andrew majored in Christian ministry and Bible he has an M. Dave our master of divinity and Christian education

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: An a doctorate of education from Southern Baptist theological seminary

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_03]: BTS even me and he does all this great youth ministry and church

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Parachurch and academic setting ministry okay, so we've got herald and Rebecca

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_03]: First okay, then we have Andrew and then we have Sarah

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Sarah is the founder of bright lights

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But she's under authority here because her parents came first and then her husband

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So even though she is the founder of bright lights

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_03]: We met her parents and then we met her husband and then we just have a little blurb about her

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She's about her boy bright lights in ministry

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Designed to equip young ladies to use their years of youth fully for Christ

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_03]: She's the author of these books and

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Coauthored with her siblings of making brothers and sisters best friends. That's all we get about Sarah

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Even though she's just a founder of this whole thing. It's fine

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very interesting

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_05]: a person's like is this the same

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Is this the same thing she's talking about it? It seems like it

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very interesting that that is how that why me makes sense

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Makes sense that how they were introduced on the about those page

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But when you go to oh

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03]: My gosh

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Tomorrow's forefathers is the umbrella name for the malley

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Families ministry

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It is their goal to see coming generations rise up as strong men and women of God

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But again, I think this whole thing started with Sarah

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But she's you know we can't have that

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's got to be

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: She's just got to be very quietly tucked to the side

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so no I was not involved in that that would have meant having friends and potentially friends outside the call

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was dangerous

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I might go tell them that you know my home was violent and abusive and

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I was experiencing sexual assault all the time

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So no I was not I was not allowed to participate in this kind of thing but

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sorry sorry for anyone who did and

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_05]: It feels like one of those things that has to be called adjacent because that wouldn't really be something like cult wood sanction like empowering

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Girls

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't sound like they're well it's empowering them to go be quiet in a corner well

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the books the books that Sarah wrote are before you meet Prince charming

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And what was her other one

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Speak truth in your heart

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, before you meet Prince charming which is about

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, okay this guide I'm gonna read it from the website

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: This guide to

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Radiant purity combines the thoughts and events in the life of a young princess with solid clear teaching of biblical

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Conviction's that young ladies today need to grasp through a captivating fairy tale

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Modern day examples practical instruction in a abundant humor

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Sarah Molly, Molly. I don't know how does their name changes

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Challenges young ladies to turn to the Lord for fulfillment to guard their hearts and minds

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Identify and avoid the world's thinking and to shine brightly in this generation

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: This book offers biblical answers to everyday questions and deep life struggles because we have to have an answer for everything

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is definitely cool to Jason

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It includes many practical tips for girls such as how to guard your heart when you have a crush

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't have that

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Being wise and internet usage

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So we can't learn things we can't know what's going on out there in the world

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: How to strengthen relationships with parents?

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course and how to use your single ears wisely

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, it's very cult adjacent and then the cover

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Is like a guy on a horse

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But in silhouette

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is important because then you can't see his face. I can't have a crush

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Because then you have a crush just with the silhouette on the cover still a book for girls

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it's got a boy our life center on

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_03]: males

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_03]: We are a male centered, you know

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything as female life forms

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_05]: You do something like that like even if this wasn't cult related and you're like I'm gonna write a book for girls and then you put a boy on the front of it like

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Something's off there you're not

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have your target audience there

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you thank you, Michaela. I'm a little traumatized looking at

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_05]: We haven't had too many actual people that were in the cult reach out to us

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I know or Jason, but yeah, we love hearing from you guys

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Even if it means I have to look at traumatic books about how to not be a trampolde guard in or a chewed up piece of gum

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Michaela. Thanks for listening and I hope your healing journey is going well getting out of the cold and deconstructing all this

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_05]: IBLP bullshit that exists and thanks for helping your siblings

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That's huge labor of love and a lot of emotional work to

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_05]: All right that wraps up this week's episode and we'll be back on Monday

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for listening to another episode of the cult I left behind until next time

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_06]: If you enjoyed this podcast, please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode