51 - The Six Purposes of Marriage: Companionship

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi everyone! Welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Amanda Briggs, and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: IBLP cult which you might know from the Duggar family.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs. I am Amanda's husband and I have not heard

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: most of these stories before so stay tuned and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Alright welcome back to the next episode. What do you got for us today Amanda?

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this was gonna be simple. Six purposes and principles in the marriage relationship.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So I started reviewing the material and indeed it is not simple. And there's like

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: so much weird stuff in here. I think this is gonna... I think, okay. So my new plan,

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: because I had to pivot when I realized how crazy some of this stuff is and how deep

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Bill goes into really weird stuff. This is gonna be more than one episode so I think we'll get as

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: many of the six purposes in an episode as possible. So like, I think sometimes we'll do one and

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes we'll do two and maybe... I don't think we'll be able to do more than two at once.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this was gonna be one episode.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: My brain is still in pieces from this. Just looking over it. This is still from the advanced

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: seminar materials and it's... So is this something you're familiar with?

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I was not allowed to see this part of the material because it talks about sex.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh. Is this a thing that like hold from you until like you're old enough?

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Until you're married. So this is something you would... Or maybe engage but probably married.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so this is something that happens either right before you get married or

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: after you get married and... I'm trying to figure out how they handled this

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_00]: because there were definitely single people attending the advanced seminar. So maybe if

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you attended the advanced seminar you heard it no matter your marital status but in my home

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: growing up we did not talk about this. Also just like some previews for this little series we're gonna

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: do on the six principles and purposes in the marriage relationship. If you have sex every day

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you need to stop. If you have sex more than once a day you are definitely not godly.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: There's just a lot. There's so much. Absence plays a really big role

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: in marriage in the IBLP culture phase. I just don't understand.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's part of God's quote hidden design, Kyle. I don't know. It's still so confusing to me that

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't reconcile it in my head. It's like have as many kids as possible.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But also never have sex. Yes and the women's just supposed to stay at home and pop out

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: kids but don't have sex. It's like how confusing that must be.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So should we just do this start? We just start. I mean I don't either because this is

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: new to me because again I was wholly enrighteous and didn't look at this growing up.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And you were also mostly out of the cult by time. It would have become relevant for you.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: This is true. So the first purpose of marriage is in fact companionship which is

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: you know that's normal. Let's see how much we can mess this up.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean how much Bill can mess this up? He brings some weird stuff in right off the bat

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: because marriage is enjoyment of the fourth level of friendship. And so we've got levels of friendship

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: again but that's I mean as weird as that is that's not the weird part. The word companion finds

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: its origin in the Latin word meaning with bread. Hence it is someone with whom you break

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: bread. The word origin is significant since the breaking of bread in scripture always symbolizes

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: a covenant relationship so anyone you eat with you're in a covenant relationship with apparently.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just as important as marriage I don't think Bill thought through the second and third order

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: effects of his statements very often. So like basically everyone with whom you've ever eaten

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: is someone with whom you are in a covenant relationship. That'll make things complicated.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Strings are definitely attached. Oh and you have to be able to say your partner is your best friend.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Companionship and marriage occurs when both can say my partner is my best friend

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: which I think is something that is pretty normal outside of the cult. Yeah but it's super

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: messed up in the cult because it's like well you don't really know this person. Your dad's

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: going to pick them out for you but now they're supposed to be your best friend and

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you may not even like them. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So I, my brain hates the way this is laid out. It is not organized or logical to me

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: so I'm going to do the best I can to make it make sense but also it's Bill and it's a cult so

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I can make it make sense. The name of the game is not for it to make

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: sense is to admire how bad it is. So I did start my PhD this week and I'm in 7th heaven.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I love my professors. I love my cohort. They're all so cool and one of my classes is teaching

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: undergraduates and like making sense of things and all this stuff and I'm sitting there thinking

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to myself in class like well if I can make Bill Gothard make sense I can probably make

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: something logical make sense for students right like yeah but also I don't know if I can make this

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: make sense. So congratulations listeners you are now my guinea pigs for next semester when I'm a

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: professor for undergraduate classes. So here we go guinea pigs principle marriage oneness

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: so it's God's design for complete unity between man and wife man and wife say man and wife

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: do you know that one the princess bride oh yes yes yeah I had to show you that movie I can't

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I had to show you a movie Kyle it's a classic but anyways so complete unity

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: um and again little theology moment here remember that bill is a trichotomist or holds the trichotomy

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: view that humankind is body spirit and soul whereas there are other theological disciplines

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: that have a dichotomy view where it's just soul and body like soul and spirit are synonymous

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: so he's got it again coming from trichotomy that you have to achieve oneness in body spirit and soul

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and in order to do this both people in the marriage which of course is only between a man

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and a woman must recognize that the predominant factor of unity in the marriage comes first

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: by oneness of spirit and then by oneness of soul now here's where it gets all squirrely because he's

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: using the terms soul and spirit but then he immediately transitions into spirit and psychological

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: which doesn't really make sense from like a salvation perspective within the Christian faith

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: so I don't know if Bill understands Bill this trying to understand Bill is really hard

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: um so so then he has a chart because he says the spirit must be pictured as dominant the soul

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and harmony with the spirit and the physical under control so even in marriage well I mean

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: he's not wrong in some ways because I believe and it is now law as it should be that rape

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: does occur in marriage but like if you're in a healthy consensual relationship um

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: hang on wait I'm realizing I'm thinking of this in terms of consent like a normal person

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: but we're gonna find out Bill is talking about this in terms of abstinence because God

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: because Bill made up rules for God so never mind ignore all of that we'll come back to it um

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: are you confused yet we should all be confused at this point if a couple achieves the best

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: possible physical relationship they will still experience only a small and distorted part

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: of what God intended for the marriage for marriage companionship if they enjoy the best physical

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and psychological oneness they still will have a relationship that falls short of what God

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: intended don't have good sex people it's not a good mark of your relationship uh so so this

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: is when it switches from soul spirit body to spirit psychology and physical

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: without any explanation as to why um and he's got these charts so like spiritual he's got the whole

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: bar filled dominant and then psychological is half of that bar and it says in harmony and then

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: like a third of the half of the bar is physical and it says under control so again don't know who's

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: control of gods plus you're supposed to not have sex when you're married when Bill says not to have

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: sex even though you're married this is um and then more stuff about how the physical is bad

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: um but on the other hand if a couple comes together in a oneness of spirit each partner is free to

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: demonstrate love by giving to the others needs then if for some medical reason they're not able

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: to enjoy the physical aspects of marriage they can still give to each other's needs so there's

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it's again like the culty shit where there's some truth that's like universal like hey uh there

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: are times when you're not going to be able to have sex and you should still be able to

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: have a good relationship because your your companionship is more than just the sexual

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: like that's not a bad concept but it's going to get really tied to the menstrual cycle here in

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: a minute oh no we're back to that uh I should have saw that coming okay and then we have like

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Christianity's favorite diagram for marriage which is the triangle so man and woman with

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: God at the top uh huh and then it says is the partners come closer to the Lord they come closer

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to each other's spirit so it's really important to like maintain a very robust spiritual relationship

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: with God individually because as you do that you'll come closer to each other yeah I mean that's

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: something they they still preach in in what I consider normal church yeah yeah I'm very

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: familiar with that diagram yeah um okay and then as wisdom searches are conducted in the morning and

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: evening no too early um it'll do good things for you there's a bunch about that but like

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: bottom line you should be doing wisdom searches morning and evening so I guess my family wasn't

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: very holy because we usually only did one or the other yeah we'd have nighttime well

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_00]: well let me take that back there was there were periods of time when Rick would be like

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: super gung-ho about his role as a spiritual leader in the home according to Bill and so we would

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know have this stupid early morning wisdom searches and then we'd have like the family worship

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: time at night so I guess sometimes we were holy and sometimes we were only half holy

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and sometimes we're zero percent holy okay um so couple should be seeking first the kingdom

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: of God and his righteousness and then everything else would be added unto them see Matthew 6 33

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and then then we have God's hidden design in quotes God's quote hidden design because Bill

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: loves to find God's hidden design which is actually just Bill's opinion or Bill's propaganda

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: so key living in harmony with the wife's cycle oh no how is satan attacking the hidden design of

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: marriage companionship satan's goal promote insensitivity to the wife's cycle

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't even with the stock sense

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: this is a dangerous slippery slope why it's just

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: that's it's just something to everybody has to navigate

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and I feel like this is the very weird thread to pull well people who have sex with women have

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: to navigate yes okay so yeah just so everyone knows satan's goal out there is to promote

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: insensitivity to the wife's cycle so what special what special purposes does God have for the

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: wife's cycle because because there has to be more than childbearing yes so there's a spiritual

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: component to this obviously it's a sign of the promise between God and the woman

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: let's see if there's anything worth noting about that point there is little doubt that

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the normal reproductive functions in a woman were in place before Adam and Eve sinned God's first

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: command to them as a couple was to bear children labor in childbirth was a consequence of the

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: fall but was given to the woman for her spiritual benefit not for her physical destruction

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: so God loves you ladies uh so he wanted you to hurt more when you have babies

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I always thought that was a little weird there's like a huge emphasis on that in a lot of

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: theological writing and pondering by white men old white men primarily um two a monthly

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: warning to the wife of the danger of beguilement women you have periods as a reminder of the

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: danger of beguilement no it's had a fact mm-hmm there's nothing but a verse let's see um from

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: second Corinthians 11 3 but I fear lest any lest by any means as the serpent beguiled Eve through his

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: sorry this is washed out oh beguiled Eve through his subtility so your minds should be corrupted

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: from the simplicity that is in Christ so from that we get that the the cycle is a monthly warning

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to the wife of the danger of beguilement um and three it's a monthly reminder to the husband of his

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: need for self-control and her need for protection and cleansing from the word of God

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: what protection from the cleansing of the word of God uh no his protection of her

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and her need for protection oh wait sorry it's a monthly reminder to the husband of his need for

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: self-control so the husband needs self-control and the wife needs protection from the man obviously

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and cleansing with the word of God so he needs to read the bible at her

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: while she's on her period so men um if you're if or whomever with someone who gets a period

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you need to be reading the bible at them the whole time non-stop sounds like that applies in all

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: situations anyways well that too because you know women they're wily little fuckers

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: um based on these purposes how should the cycle be viewed what do you think Kyle how

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: should the cycle be viewed let's let's do some I take a very scientific approach to this

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: no we can't have that Kyle that's how my brain works and I believe it is there's a biological

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_01]: thing that is happening there and that's also can we talk about the fact that the bible that

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the cult is very anti having sex on your period I think that should be a personal preference I'm

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: always trying to figure out how to like say well like that doesn't have to stop you so uh

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to each their own don't have to have self-control if you don't want to but a cult shouldn't be

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: telling you what to do um so so based on these purposes here's how the cycle should be viewed

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: the trials of a wife's cycle should be welcomed as friends not right and not

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: resented as intruders james 1 3 I'm not going to go back and read James but I don't think he was talking

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: about the woman's cycle there no I'm sure you know okay um so that's the first purpose of

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: marriage companionship but please know we spend the whole time talking about the menstrual cycle

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: at least 80 percent of the time on that yep yep okay so so what I think we need to do now is

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: pause this conversation maybe let's answer some questions or something because marriage purpose

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: too is pleasure and this goes on for a real long time um about how to do pleasure according to

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: bill so come back next week for pleasure in marriage because you definitely should not be

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: having pleasure outside of marriage people oh my god and even if you are married this is where

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: we're gonna learn you should not be experiencing pleasure every day definitely not multiple times a

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: day uh ps please go have lots of great consensual sex just to protest this entire concept um

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: oh this is it's just real bad it's just real real real bad and then it it's going to get into

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: like legalism and then the menstrual cycle and how long you have to wait to have sex after the

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: birth of a son or a daughter that again yes um and then there are going to be some stories

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: like one story that proves everything bill says is correct I'm shocked yeah

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: oh and we're also gonna learn how abstinence allows quote barren couples to have children

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: um and oh this is gonna be a very controversial episode we're gonna talk about abortion apparently

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: um and we're also going to talk about genetic abnormalities and bladder infections

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah yeah this is this is all part of pleasure um and how we're gonna picture ourselves dead to sin

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: um oh pictures of eagles so so yeah let's talk about that next time you good with that

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gonna be a long conversation we have a lot of ground to cover I just like hit the highlights

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in what I said there was so much more than that but before before we go answer some questions we

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: got um just a wonderful message from a listener named hadasah and I want to read this because

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's about um the courtship the seven purposes of courtship or whatever that was phases the seven

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: phases of a godly courtship hadasah sent this in it's crazy to me that the story of Ruth has

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: been told so differently I was raised in a Jewish household and was going to a fairly

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: orthodox synagogue for most of my childhood while the story of Ruth was taught my teachers

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: highlighted the fact that Ruth could have gone home she was a convert and had other family but Naomi

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: which is her mother-in-law lost both her husband and her sons one was Ruth's husband so Ruth out of

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: love for Naomi and her new religion decided to travel with her so she would not be alone

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_00]: her relationship with boas is lesser to the story when Naomi decides to go home Ruth goes

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: with her and makes sure Naomi is fed Ruth goes to get food because she doesn't want her mother-in-law

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: in the fields I was taught it wasn't out of some respect to her authority but true love for her

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: mother-in-law and wanting to protect her that god blessed Ruth with boas in the sense of having

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: ended up in his field by chance etc it's crazy how the same story can be taught so differently

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: isn't that fascinating there's a very different take on that story and a very like just completely

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: different that's beautiful plus it's a story about women oh my god it's a story about women no

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: wonder how Bella had to like change it all up we can't have women out there doing good things

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: taking care of each other not needing a man yeah I don't think it would have fit the the narrative

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: in the cult if it's like oh your your mother-in-law is you know needs help and as a woman you can

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: go you know pause your life or whatever and set your own romantic ambitions aside and go take care of

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: another woman well that would fit with his celibacy theme and ministry but it doesn't fit with the

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: whole you need a man and you need to be under a man except I'm gonna say something except you

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: can't be under a man every day oh cult jokes

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: feel like a cult stand-up one where you just whip out cult jokes that's pretty good

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: crack myself up okay so now let's look at a question and folks who are sending in questions

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've responded to some maybe most of you at this point and said like I put it in the list

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we recently decided we're gonna try to start answering questions on video so that you

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: can see Kyle's face and the faces he makes about cult stuff because we're not in a place where

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: we can start doing like full episodes as videos just with my phd and the yeah that would be a

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: little time consuming right now but we do want to um we do want to start answering questions that way

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: so those will be posted on our social media hopefully starting next week which is for those of

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you who um listen every week yeah late august early september 2024 so look for that and then in the

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: meantime let's pick one to answer today all right from a listener named debra do you think

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: chris and rick would have been as dysfunctional if they had not been involved in the cult do you

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: think they would have had as many kids if yes do you think they would have been better nurturers

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I've never met them I don't know just based off of what I do know um it sounds like

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I would guess that the cult definitely probably amplified bad behaviors particularly from rick

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and so I would I would guess that it probably wouldn't have been as bad and then as far as

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: number of children I have no idea so I I think chris always wanted a lot of kids which doesn't

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: make any sense I know but I think her version of a lot of kids was like four or five I think

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I was supposed to be their last kid I'm number four um and then all of the guilt tripping in the

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: cult of you know god needs to control the womb and how many kids you have which we'll get to in

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the quiverful movement when we get through the purposes of marriage and how you can't have sex

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: but also you need to have sex because you need to have a quiverful of children but so yeah I

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: think they probably would have stopped after me to answer that part do you think they would

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: have had as many kids do you think they would have been better nurturers oh and what they have

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: been is dysfunctional so so you know how I've talked in the past about how like chris hated herself

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think she had those issues from such a young age I think I've mentioned this before

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: like her brothers and sisters have told me she was like that growing up um and

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: again I just don't get it like she was stunning but she hated herself so I think she was gonna be

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: like that and and her self-hatred was going to manifest in anger and dysfunction and toxic behavior

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: um I think she might have had some narcissism as well uh I would love to have a really qualified

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: psychologist like analyze her but um I think she still would have been dysfunctional and I think

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: she still would have been physically violent I do I don't think she would have bought the whip

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: thing that the cult sold but I mean she she hit us with her hands and she hit us with

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: other implements so I think she still would have been physically abusive verbally abusive

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: emotionally abusive I think maybe what would have been a little different if she wouldn't

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: have been able to bring as much like God hates you into the conversation and then Rick I think he

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: might have been a little better not in a cult um but what Rick fundamentally had wrong with him was

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: like his ego and his fear he he was very proud person and a very fearful person so I think

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_00]: he still would have had those struggles and they still would have lent themselves to toxicity

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and dysfunction and harm um but again maybe not as much spiritual abuse and I think Rick also wanted

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: um a good number of kids but again I think without the cult they might have stopped after me

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah I mean the weird part or I guess a a weird part about the cult is just like gives them

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: so much power well it gives them a place to like to justify their behaviors yes

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah and so the the cult was essentially saying like these are the bad behaviors you should have

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah but it's it's condoned and then they can latch on to that and like this is what bill says or

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: this is what you know their interpretation of the bible says to do and so it's okay so I'm

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: just gonna keep doing it and I you know there's probably never any self reflection on that like

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: is this actually a good idea or is this harmful it was just like nope this is justified this is

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: what I was taught and this is condoned by my peers and bill and the the authoritative figures in their

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: life yeah I don't think it was well with that being said I think it probably everything

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: probably would have been a little better outside of the cult a little but probably still very

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: right but just by not to the same magnitude if I had to guess but maybe I think potentially that's

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: the word potentially potentially a little better yeah I don't think they would have handled my

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: situation with my brother any differently yeah I didn't because that wasn't about God like Rick

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: straight up told me it was about protecting the family name so yeah I haven't really heard anything

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: so far in the cult material about like protecting the family name that hasn't been a huge I think

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: about a lot of that was um let's see how to answer this so you were supposed to protect the family

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_00]: because by protecting the family you protected the cult because the cult like the family was part

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: of the cult so there was that piece of it but also on the other hand I think that that that part of

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Rick probably came from his parents too his mother was a very proud woman and she had a lot of other

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you know in retrospect a lot of other issues and again like grandpa the only side of him

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I ever saw or knew was just like a really sweet wonderful guy who was a great grandpa to me

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: but I don't know how I don't know a bunch about how Rick experienced him so yeah I think I think

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: there was probably some generational stuff yeah I mean I feel like it's pretty safe to say that

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: like grandchildren are treated differently than children were uh seemed to hear a lot of stories

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: about that like well grandpa was really hard on your dad but you know super sweet to the grandchildren

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know like I think people change when they're interacting with their grandchildren as opposed

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to their how they raise their own children so yeah yeah I'm sure you know there might have been something

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: there well I think we have time for one or two more this one will be easy from Tori what are our

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: harry potter houses oh we're the same one three two one Gryffindor

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to take that test very early on in our relationship you did oh pretty sure it was a

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: requirement I should tell them this is totally unrelated but for any of you in the medical

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: profession just like how small things just make such an impact on your patients so I've shared

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: that I was really really really super sick and then I had a significant surgery in 2022 do you

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: remember this or where I'm going and somehow because like everything leading up to I was in

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: so much pain like I don't even have words for it it was so so bad and it was a couple years of that

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and by the time I got to the surgery day like I fainted when we got there it like

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: the months leading up to that you were just out of it it was so bad in so much pain that you

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_02]: you weren't really present yeah you were definitely like just checked out and trying to like

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: because I wasn't yeah the military was not properly managing my pain with medication or anything

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and um so we get to the hospital for this like surgery I'm so sick I like faint in the waiting

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: room so they whisk me away they took me away from Kyle I forgot about that yeah and so I

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and the surgeon came to check on me before the surgery and we were just talking about like

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff I think he was trying to make me feel better um and it came up that I really like Harry Potter

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and I jokingly asked him like what's your Harry Potter house and his nurse was like

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: he doesn't know but I'm gonna make him take the test and so I didn't think anything of

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that I was just trying to survive so you know I'm in um surgery I'm in pre-op and then

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: they come get me for my surgery and they wheel me in oh I'm gonna cry talking about this they wheel

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: me into the operating room and they had the Harry Potter theme music playing and he had taken

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: he had taken his test he had done the Pottermore or Wizarding World test and he had found out

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: he was a Gryffindor and like all the nurses had done their tests too they were like don't

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: worry you're with fellow Gryffindors you're gonna be fine and they had the Harry Potter

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: theme music playing and then they had already asked me my favorite song and I had told them

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: it's it's a different one and so like when they knocked me out I fell asleep to my favorite song

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: playing and like they just took such good care of me and it was oh my gosh it was a small thing but

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: like so wonderful and I felt so cared for in that moment so to all of our medical professionals

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: thank you for what you do yeah so when did you actually where you first uh introduced a Harry

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Potter because I know it wasn't like as the books and the movies were coming out right it was later

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: correct much later because we weren't allowed witchcraft Kyle well I'm not demonic I know why you

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: weren't bound uh so when did I all right so this is funny my ex and I tried to watch the movies

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and I kept falling asleep like I couldn't get past the first or second movie which

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to this day like I watched them with love but they're just not that great like the kids were

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: so young they overact a lot like they're just not as good um see I feel like it was just that was the

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a style for them like that I don't know to me it felt more intentional like that was

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that was their flavor on on acting but maybe it was just bad acting like everyone else

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is phenomenal all the adults like oh my gosh they had the jackpot with their casting of the

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: adults and some of the kids grew into it some of them you know I watched them with love but

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah so I rediscovered Harry Potter after my divorce I want to say um

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: was it somewhere it was somewhere in there somewhere in the last like

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: five to eight years and there was a period of my life where I fell asleep to Harry Potter

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: in the Deathly Hallows like every night every single night it was the only way I could fall asleep

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I listened to it on audiobook so you were introduced to the movies before the books yes

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew you obviously liked the books more than the movies oh my gosh the books are so much better

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_02]: than the movies mm-hmm I have not made it through the books yet well I've heard the audiobooks

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's how I find a man in the house as I walk towards the Harry Potter audiobooks

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_01]: so I think collectively I have heard all of the books but I'm still I'm still trying to

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_00]: actually read through them so I think what's cool about Gryffindor and oh my gosh like there's so many

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: opinions about it but I think they're a little bit of all of it like they're supposed to be the

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you know brave at heart ones but they're they're not dumb and they have so much heart

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so they have elements of Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff in them and I mean you could even argue they have

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit of that like Slytherin Drive Gryffindor's can be very competitive but yeah I think that

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: it's that willingness to do the hard thing no matter the personal cost that comes through again

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and again especially like you look at Neville and his character evolution you look at Hermione

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_00]: of course Harry I have so many questions about how Peter Pettigrew ended up in Gryffindor

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: like JK please tell us and then you know I think Ron even you look at his character development he

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_00]: probably struggles the most but he always comes around and does the right thing in the end

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00]: so I think that that's probably how I ended up with the Gryffindor house like

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that's very much part of my value system when you do the right thing no matter the personal cost

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and it takes a lot of courage to do that so yeah.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: All right well that will wrap up this week's episode stay tuned and we'll be back next week

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: with the second purpose of marriage I hate purposes don't want to hear purposes anymore after this.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to another episode of The Cult I Left Behind. Until next time don't join a cult.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: If you enjoyed this podcast please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode.