39 - The Halls of Satan

[00:00:00] Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast. I'm your host Amanda Briggs and I'm

[00:00:08] here to tell you my stories of growing up in the IBLP cult which you might know from the Duggar family.

[00:00:14] And I'm your other host Kyle Briggs. I am Amanda's husband and I have not heard most of these

[00:00:20] stories before so stay tuned and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:25] The next episode what do you have for us today Amanda?

[00:00:36] Well we were just on a date because side note never stopped dating your spouse but

[00:00:43] we were talking about children because we are I think we've mentioned before we're considering

[00:00:50] adoption sometime in the near future so today we were like we moved so we were picking out carpet

[00:00:58] kids in mind you know and messes and stains and stuff and we got a house in a really great school

[00:01:06] district for potential future children and then we were out tonight um and uh it kind of hit me that

[00:01:16] well like those are the halls of Satan and I started asking Kyle all these questions about

[00:01:24] school like going to school particularly public school also known as the halls of Satan and

[00:01:31] and then quickly realized let's just hold all the questions because then I can ask him here

[00:01:38] and you guys can witness my abject terror as I contemplate this vast unknown.

[00:01:48] Well before we get into that you want to answer one of our questions?

[00:01:52] Sure sure. Hi Amanda and Kyle my name is Catherine I'm curious just to get both of y'all's thoughts on

[00:02:00] how one's experience with something impacts the way you view it long term so as an example

[00:02:08] I'm a Christian not not the type that's praying for y'all and I mean that in the best of ways

[00:02:13] but I remember you saying like oh Christians may hear this would be like I'm praying for you

[00:02:17] and I just love your podcast and don't feel the need to pray for y'all but anyway um so I'm a Christian

[00:02:23] group in a what would be considered a very conservative church um I'm still a Christian

[00:02:29] still in a conservative church but I think one reason why I am a Christian and still in a

[00:02:37] conservative church is because of my experience it was very positive even when I got pregnant

[00:02:42] as a teenager which as y'all know big no no in any church really that's conservative

[00:02:48] the church handled it really well like not everyone knew but the people who knew handled it well the

[00:02:53] pastor who knew handled it well when I now tell people as an adult what I went through they're

[00:02:58] very compassionate and not judgy so I think because I had such a positive experience in my

[00:03:04] family and in my church with Christianity that impacts me still being a Christian today

[00:03:09] and still being part of that church um and I know kind of um that y'all have certain beliefs

[00:03:17] about religion and the cultiness of religion so I guess my question boils down to do you think

[00:03:23] and especially for Amanda do you think you'd have a different set of beliefs possibly if you'd

[00:03:29] had a different experience um or do you think you ultimately would have come to the same

[00:03:34] conclusions thank y'all for your time and I just love your podcast and the work y'all are doing

[00:03:40] thank you for the question Catherine I have to say I think we have a lot of Christian listeners

[00:03:47] and I'm actually very impressed by that because I say fuck so much in the podcast and they keep

[00:03:53] listening and like I don't know it's it's actually kind of healing I suppose if I really

[00:04:02] stop and think about it that I can be authentically where I am in my life which is mad about you know

[00:04:08] stupid shit and a cult and I can say things like stupid shit and a cult and people who identify

[00:04:15] very strongly and passionately as Christians are still yeah you have like valuable things to

[00:04:23] say that's cool and I think that's actually very healing for me side note um the question though

[00:04:32] who do you I know the end was geared toward me Kyle do you have anything to say while I ponder

[00:04:41] I think it's a really good question and I I feel like I come from a place very similar to her

[00:04:49] in the sense that like I had a very good experience growing up in a primarily southern Baptist church

[00:04:59] so pretty conservative so pretty conservative um and I've I've been to many different churches

[00:05:06] I didn't start going to church until I was like 10 12 somewhere in there so I didn't go through

[00:05:12] like the whole like VBS thing as a small child and like I didn't VBS being vacation bible school

[00:05:19] like summer yeah sorry yeah maybe everybody doesn't know yeah you translate military for me I translate

[00:05:28] christianese for you that like that's a great point like I'm so used to like anybody from where

[00:05:34] I'm from says VBS and like you don't even need to provide an explanation everybody knows what VBS

[00:05:39] is um but again I grew up in like rural Oklahoma hardcore southern Baptist and I had a very positive

[00:05:47] experience with that and I really enjoyed like the community of the church and they were like good

[00:05:53] people and I didn't feel like they were super pushy and obviously everybody's different some

[00:06:00] people are more hardcore than others others are kind of they'll listen to a podcast for someone

[00:06:06] yeah and I know some of those people are listening so like

[00:06:11] so there is that so I get where she's coming from on this question and I feel like I had a very

[00:06:16] different experience with Christianity Christianity and religion than you did obviously so I

[00:06:25] understand where she's coming from that like hey if you had a you had a good experience and

[00:06:30] you grew up in a good church with good people that you know were genuine and like helping each other

[00:06:36] and maybe they weren't super into proselytizing people and it was just more of a community and

[00:06:45] they just have good morals and they abide by those morals and it's just a shared

[00:06:49] belief system like it was really more of a family feel than it was a religious

[00:06:55] that was your experience and you still ended up not in church

[00:07:01] yeah and I think I would say at the end of the day I wouldn't blame that on the church that I grew up

[00:07:08] in just Christians in general and that's from living in multiple states going to different

[00:07:14] churches going to different denominations of church for that southern Baptist or non-denominational

[00:07:19] or sometimes I went to a Methodist church so I've been to many different types of churches

[00:07:24] across many different states and I've been to some churches and this was kind of a big turnoff for

[00:07:30] me it was like they were massive churches you know those ones that are like how many millions of

[00:07:36] dollars what did it cost to build that building? Oh like the other day when we were driving by

[00:07:39] and you're like oh it looks like they're putting up a new YMCA what a huge beautiful oh it's a church

[00:07:45] yeah and you know some of those like the music there is phenomenal like they're just straight

[00:07:51] up concerts the church spends a shitload of money on the production value of the services

[00:07:59] and while I did enjoy that eventually I feel like I matured enough I was just like

[00:08:05] I'm pretty good with money and I was like I can't I have a problem with one donating to

[00:08:15] how they're spending their money and two like there's a lot of problems out there and like

[00:08:22] growing up in church I know these stories of like you should be like helping the people around you

[00:08:27] and like and you know helping your community and that's really the feeling I got in church was

[00:08:34] like as a kid yeah like those principles I think they instilled in me very well like

[00:08:41] we're a church we should be like helping our community and I did see that in some churches

[00:08:46] and then when I would go to other churches where I would move and I would try to find a new church

[00:08:50] and I'm like everybody in here's tithing 20% or whatever 10% and there's this massive massive

[00:08:59] building and then there's like I don't know what they're doing with their money other than

[00:09:04] buying this huge fucking building and having social parties all the time and it was great for

[00:09:11] like the kids like it gave them after school programs and plenty of stuff to do and like

[00:09:16] yeah there was a social aspect of that but like I didn't see them doing anything really helpful

[00:09:22] outside of the members of the church which I feel like was kind of counterintuitive well that's

[00:09:27] not biblical actually if you get real into the theology of it it was still a good thing

[00:09:33] but it was also not exactly what I was taught church was supposed to be so I was a little

[00:09:39] that's like some people very jadedly is that a word jadedly I'm making it up call that the

[00:09:47] sexy white Jesus club that I would yeah that makes sense you know in the sexy building with

[00:09:52] the sexy production and the sexy pastor with the sexy sermons and yeah you know and then

[00:09:58] they serve the sexy coffee at the sexy whatever it's called I forget now you got like a star

[00:10:06] bug in the church or some sort of coffee bar and you're you're just there like having a sexy time

[00:10:12] with so yeah but on the flip side of that like I people starved I used to drive by a church and

[00:10:19] I didn't go there but I remember vividly like every day on the way to work I would drive

[00:10:25] by this church and their sign always said free lunches 11 to 1 o'clock or 11 to 3 every day

[00:10:33] and they were just like brown bag sack lunches I don't know what they were serving you probably

[00:10:37] just like a sandwich and chips and like anybody can stop in there for any reason and like get free

[00:10:43] food and it wasn't a big church it was outdated it looked old it was not sexy no did not look

[00:10:51] sexy and I remember driving by every day thinking these people are doing it right and I'm going to

[00:10:57] this other church that's got like this multi-million dollar building you know without name dropping

[00:11:03] stuff there's people that are like running the sound system that did it for like huge you know

[00:11:10] Grammy award-winning artists like they're running the lighting and sound system so you can imagine

[00:11:15] the quality of the show there and that's interesting you just called it the show there yeah um and so

[00:11:23] like those were the polar opposites I saw and I just feel like as I grew up in Gallow older

[00:11:28] I primarily saw like these glitzy fancy shows so show churches then churches that were actually

[00:11:38] doing what they preached and that way you know those that was the anomaly that wasn't the

[00:11:43] normal the one that was giving out the free lunches like you know they were feeding the homeless every

[00:11:48] every single day you could stop there and get a free lunch so to her to the point of the question

[00:11:53] like there are people that do those kinds of things but I feel like that's the outlier not the

[00:11:58] norm that's what eventually led you out of church yes because because it was so uncommon

[00:12:05] that a church would be doing something like that and I saw something like what churches you know

[00:12:13] feeding the homeless or whatever like that you know I I lived in a fairly large town at that time

[00:12:19] of 700,000 people and went to many different churches there drove all over the city lived

[00:12:25] there for multiple years and that's one in the bible belt one church in a town where

[00:12:33] there's a church on every every corner so you know that I mean that makes sense I mean that that's one

[00:12:40] of those stories and you you hear this from other people besides me is this like it's christians

[00:12:45] to drive people out of church right it's not api it's like come join our club where we don't

[00:12:50] believe in god so I guess I'm just another statistic there and it's like but at the same

[00:12:56] time I had a very good experience and I still I don't I don't have a negative view for people

[00:13:04] that are christians because I know so many good ones that do those types of things but I also know

[00:13:10] a ton and I witnessed a ton especially growing up in the bible belt of of negative examples of

[00:13:20] being a christian so so interestingly enough for me I don't think it was the cult that turned

[00:13:25] me away from christianity I don't think it was my upbringing I think it was my adulthood experiences

[00:13:30] because when I left the cult I knew okay that was fucked up that's not normal I I didn't know how

[00:13:37] not normal it was I didn't know how fucked up it was but I knew it was fucked up I got married

[00:13:42] and was like shit I had a virginity pledge with my dad like yeah you know you start having all

[00:13:48] these realizations you're like okay that's not normal let's try normal so I went to again because

[00:13:56] you know partly I'm a researcher partly I moved a lot you know military and all that kind of stuff

[00:14:03] I attended so many churches in so many states so many different denominations

[00:14:09] um so many times and at one point I was actually a worship leader for a church

[00:14:17] and I had never been like cussed out in public you know like in the workforce or anything like

[00:14:27] no one had ever cussed at me about anything chris was the only one who had done that to me up to

[00:14:33] that point so I start working as a worship leader for this church I start getting emails from people

[00:14:42] like dropping the f-bomb calling me names all this all this horrible stuff because

[00:14:49] because we didn't play a hymn they wanted one sunday the music choice is like the hottest it

[00:14:55] was so weird and then and then the other thing people like went to fucking war over at the

[00:15:01] same church was the coffee that they served they had fucking wars bloodbath over the brand of the

[00:15:10] coffee that was being brewed for christian fellowship time and so I would I got like scared of my email

[00:15:20] for the first time since rick I was scared of my email I didn't want to open up emails because

[00:15:25] people called me names they said terrible things these were like grown ass adults too

[00:15:30] um they were yeah like 60s and 70s but there were problem people younger than that too and um

[00:15:39] and I just I saw a lot of the same things and then you know the work I do with people who have

[00:15:44] survived trauma the number of folks who have come to me and said well I went to my pastor

[00:15:49] and he asked me what I was wearing when I was raped you know I just I've heard fucking tons of those

[00:15:56] stories like so many I'm very mad right now just thinking about it like so many beautiful wonderful

[00:16:05] people who experienced severe trauma that was not their fault went to someone they trusted and

[00:16:10] respected and was like a spiritual authority figure in their life and they got judged and

[00:16:14] blamed by that person instead of that person reacting with something that was actually

[00:16:19] fucking helpful um so it wasn't the cult it was not the cult that pushed me away from christianity

[00:16:26] and the thing that really have I should share the story about the milk before

[00:16:31] I don't think so the thing that like kind of slammed the whole door for me um

[00:16:38] I I'd spent like a whole day talking to a trauma survivor real shitty stuff

[00:16:46] and I got on facebook and someone had posted that they needed what it was like a third of a cup

[00:16:54] or three quarters of a cup of milk for their recipe that they wanted to make it was like a cake

[00:16:59] so not even essential food right like it was it was dessert after I don't know whatever you want

[00:17:05] to call it and they were like oh there's a god who loves me so much because I I was making this

[00:17:14] cake and god just looks out for me and I had exactly whatever the measurement of milk was

[00:17:21] in my refrigerator oh god just loves me so much and I was like fuck it no like

[00:17:32] like that's that's what people sit around and think about like oh god loves me because there

[00:17:38] was three quarters of a cup of milk and that's what I needed to make my cake tonight and I

[00:17:42] didn't have to go out to the grocery store and I just spent all day with someone who was like

[00:17:48] because Christian at the time this person was a Christian like like I just I experienced all

[00:17:53] this trauma it was sexual assault and they were like why didn't god stop it and and you know all

[00:17:59] the problem would be no question like how can a good god let bad things happen to good people

[00:18:04] um so I just spent a whole day grappling with that and then this person was like oh there's

[00:18:09] a god because there's milk for my cake and it's okay if that doesn't make sense to you it's fine

[00:18:17] it hit me like a tidal wave that day and it didn't like it didn't necessarily make me walk away I

[00:18:25] think it was something to open my eyes up and then I just started seeing so much hypocrisy and so

[00:18:31] much just phoniness and and like mean people and then I go hang out with my gay friends

[00:18:37] and they were like feeding the homeless and taking care of people and having trauma and

[00:18:42] form responses to folks and like loving people and and then I go hang out with my aviast friends

[00:18:50] and they were you know volunteering in the community and adopting kids out of the foster

[00:18:55] system and orphanages and and like doing fucking god's work and and I would go hang out with

[00:19:03] the christians and they'd be like they're not serving my brand of coffee and they didn't play my

[00:19:08] aim I'm gonna call you names in an email like like like truly logically which direction are you gonna

[00:19:16] go uh so so for me the reason I left church was christians being petty little bitches

[00:19:28] and to to the good christians out there like I see you I love you most of you are my dearest

[00:19:32] nearest friends um but like that again like you said there you you have seen the example of like

[00:19:39] good people doing good stuff so I have seen those examples of people who very strongly

[00:19:44] identify as christians living morally and ethically and just doing beautiful things

[00:19:50] but but the the massive majority of church folks with whom I've interacted in my adult life

[00:19:58] since leaving the cult were people I would never choose his friends I would never hang out with

[00:20:05] and they were really mean so with all that being said like if you had my experience or maybe no

[00:20:12] I don't think so and here's here's why um I'm gonna use a different example from the negative

[00:20:19] okay so my first experience with sex was rape as a child okay and that happened throughout my

[00:20:26] childhood and then throughout you know my teens and young adulthood I lived in a very sexually

[00:20:32] repressive oppressive environment for genity pledge with my dad all of those things I have

[00:20:39] a remarkably healthy sex life now so I I think I still would have ended up where I am no matter

[00:20:46] what because I logic my way through things and I'm not saying if you're a christian you're

[00:20:51] neurological so hear me on that but for for me with my experiences I logic my way through them

[00:20:58] and I arrive at what is for me a sound conclusion so sex and rape I healed that

[00:21:07] and I logic my way to being um in a very healthy sexual relationship with you right so

[00:21:16] church the cult was weird I really wanted to be part of church community when I left the cult

[00:21:22] tried it and and logic to my way to the negative that time of okay this is not my jam these are

[00:21:31] not my people so purely or at least partially based on the rules that in this case Christianity

[00:21:39] Christianity imposes that was a no go for you Christianity yeah you're saying it's just because

[00:21:48] like they preach like the hypocrisy opened up all the cracks from like the the phoniness in the

[00:21:57] hypocrisy I saw made me dig deeper and then as I dug deeper again believe whatever you want to

[00:22:05] believe that is absolutely okay it is your right to do so um but for me as I as I saw the hypocrisy

[00:22:12] as it exposed all those cracks as I dug into it I found a value system that was not congruent with

[00:22:19] my own okay yeah um yeah so and I mean I used the childhood rape as an introduction to sex

[00:22:29] because like that is a profound I think everyone who's sexually active can like wrap their brains

[00:22:34] around that like oh wow you can you can get from such a bad place to such a good place okay cool um

[00:22:40] and for me it's not about the cult it's not about um even I would say even like the pettiness

[00:22:51] and all the hypocrisy I saw those were just the cracks that started opening up

[00:22:58] for me the holes in just the worldview the belief system the the religion

[00:23:05] so I think I would have gotten here either way and so it sounds like you're probably a lot like me in

[00:23:11] the sense that even though I grew up in that I had a good experience with it I was still

[00:23:18] I was taught a lot of good values that I still maintain today and I still believe that like the

[00:23:23] church instills good values and some churches like they can um specifically they have the capacity

[00:23:29] yes they can um but there were other things that even as a teenager I was like I don't know about

[00:23:37] this one like it didn't sit right with me even as like a 14 year old that was just like oh you

[00:23:42] know the whole sex before marriage thing I was just kind of like I did it mostly I did it for

[00:23:49] a long time before marriage you mean yes uh an easy one is like the well you can't move in to get it

[00:23:56] before you're married and I was just like that seems like a horrible idea like if I'm gonna

[00:24:01] get married to this person and live with them for the rest of my life like I want to live with

[00:24:06] them first and see like what happens how does it work how do we operate together when we're

[00:24:14] wake up and go to sleep at the same place and we're around each other all day not just

[00:24:19] going on dates for five years and never getting to see each other in the day-to-day activities like

[00:24:28] do they do their dishes like do they dishes do their dishes right when they're done cleaning

[00:24:32] do they just leave a mountain of dishes in there for a week like you know just normal stuff

[00:24:38] it seemed very counterintuitive to me to not experience that prior to marriage but in a

[00:24:45] southern Baptist church like there was a ton of pressure of like you do not move in together

[00:24:51] like that is the rule and so like that was just you know that's just one example but there were

[00:24:56] things like that they kind of like planted those seeds and maybe they already existed but it just

[00:25:02] it didn't seem right to me and there was no talking yourself out of that one there was no

[00:25:08] justifying that one to the church the church had a very like strong stance on that no sex

[00:25:14] before marriage no moving in together you know if your Baptist no dancing like whatever

[00:25:21] that one last one's kind of a joke but no they're serious I mean they can be they definitely can

[00:25:26] be um but there was those types of things that kind of those were the cracks for me and then

[00:25:32] when you couple it with everything else that we've already talked about it was just like okay like

[00:25:36] this I can't fully buy into this and since I can't fully buy into this I don't want to

[00:25:42] invest my time yeah and so and and a lot of it for me comes down to values and a big one is

[00:25:52] it's a topic called patristics which I've taken some classes on I can't remember if that was

[00:25:59] undergrad or graduate level but that was a whole lot of fun and and you find out that a significant

[00:26:08] a significant portion of the ideology upon which modern Christianity is founded is

[00:26:16] some of the most derogatory shit you will ever read about women like I don't even want to

[00:26:24] I wrote so many papers on this um but you know all of these people that we you know the

[00:26:31] the forefathers of our faith the you know the founding fathers of Christianity and the church

[00:26:39] I mean they were they were teaching and preaching the worst stuff about women and I'm

[00:26:47] and I know that there are denominations that don't do that I know there are denominations

[00:26:51] that ordain women I know that there are denominations that promote equality and actually

[00:26:56] genuinely believe in it and I know that there are denominations that treat all people with dignity

[00:27:03] and respect what a concept uh but I just I can't I can't be part of something that is based on

[00:27:14] like fundamentally based on oppression and which is so funny because Christians would say oh but

[00:27:21] Jesus sets you free but but they don't live it you know because you have to like be anti-oppression

[00:27:30] to do that so to all the Christians out there who are anti-oppression and who do believe in

[00:27:35] treating people with dignity and respect and taking care of the people in your community you

[00:27:39] know all of those good things I know you exist I know you're real I know you're out there

[00:27:44] and more power to you like you do you but I think that cold aside I still would have wound up where I

[00:27:52] am okay well there's a very long-winded answer to that question I didn't expect uh I didn't expect

[00:28:01] to spend a half hour on that but we did and you know if people want to hear more about that let

[00:28:07] us know yeah we can dive deeper into that topic but anyways we were at dinner and Amanda started

[00:28:14] asking me a bunch of questions about like what is life what does life look like with a kid going to

[00:28:19] school yeah and so I was outlining what a normal day looks like for a kid at various ages because

[00:28:26] I went through the entire public school system um and also I have so many questions and also

[00:28:31] went to a normal state college or state university so we have very different experiences in life

[00:28:39] you went somewhere with demons all day well I righteously stayed at home yes I never went to a

[00:28:45] private school I was I went to normal public schools um so I started I briefly remember going

[00:28:53] to like a pre-k school before kindergarten they start satanizing you out there in the

[00:29:00] non-cool world I mean I feel like it was mostly just like playing like when you're that young

[00:29:05] like you you know the tension span is tiny this is all sarcasm yeah color this book and

[00:29:11] then go run outside for 30 minutes so we need we need to hang on pause pause pause all right

[00:29:20] I don't even know where to start really at first grade this is gonna be really hard well if we

[00:29:26] if we have kids I'm gonna be like have fun going to the strange place I know nothing about today

[00:29:33] darling child out there with the demons what I mean I mean this is gonna be such a learning curve for

[00:29:43] me oh I know this is such a learning partially expect that like I'm just gonna do that because

[00:29:49] you're gonna be standing there with your hands up by your side like what do I do

[00:29:54] I know you'll be more involved with that but I feel like there's definitely gonna be a period

[00:29:58] where you're like I have no idea what's about to happen like what okay they're gone now what

[00:30:04] yeah so wait I think when we were out I had asked you like what what time school starts like

[00:30:12] are you getting up for wisdom search in the morning like how much equipment do they take

[00:30:18] with them on a given day um I mean obviously every family is different and you know their

[00:30:24] situations could vary what I remember my personal experience you know starting you know let's just

[00:30:30] say first the third grade ish you know I remember getting up it's still being dark like early in

[00:30:36] the morning by six six seven o'clock you know um I feel like my mom made made lunch you pack your

[00:30:45] lunch in your little lunch box um you get your backpack and either your parents take you to

[00:30:50] like drive you to school or you know I moved a lot and then you just like set you loose like do you

[00:30:56] walk your young child to their classroom like so I mean some some people do um yeah our parents allowed

[00:31:03] inside the school yeah okay especially at younger ages your parents are more likely to like literally

[00:31:10] take you to like here's your you go to class like I'm walking you to your classroom into

[00:31:15] the school to the door drop you off with a teacher as you get older like you just get

[00:31:20] dropped off at the curb out front and you run into the school and you know where you're going

[00:31:25] and you know there was times and like I said I moved a lot I went to a lot of different public

[00:31:30] schools in two different states sometimes I at one point I lived literally across the street from

[00:31:37] the school I just walked there there was points in time where I had to go through the neighborhood

[00:31:45] and I can get to the school and I would like walk or ride my bike to school unattended you know some

[00:31:51] kids get picked up other kids ride the bus there's different ways of riding the bus you know

[00:31:57] in Oklahoma or like rural Oklahoma people are so spread out that they would come pick me up at

[00:32:05] my driveway and you would stop the next person's house the next person's house and there's a whole

[00:32:10] route and it was a long so you're like on the bus for a long time oh I would get picked up at like

[00:32:16] 645 7 a.m wouldn't get to school till 8 what if you have to go to the bathroom you go before

[00:32:23] you get on the bus okay it's like do they remember to do that well you hope so all right it's

[00:32:30] kind of up to your parents to like tell you make sure you go to the bathroom I mean you get

[00:32:34] up in the morning you go to the bathroom you walk outside get on the bus okay you know so that was one

[00:32:39] experience I've had when I lived in California you don't get the door-to-door service there's too

[00:32:45] many kids and there's it was so densely populated that the bus would stop at like maybe the entrance

[00:32:52] to your neighborhood and like 30 kids would meet at the corner of this one road and you'd all

[00:32:59] get on there we had two stops it does the route just like run continuously or is there like if you

[00:33:05] miss the bus oh yeah you're screwed yep you're screwed okay okay I'm taking notes of everything I

[00:33:11] have to do so like I have to get in the bus stop yeah okay um and then you get to school you encounter

[00:33:17] some demons because then your parents got to take you and they're pissed off and then like

[00:33:23] uh and then sports so and music in theater are those like does everyone have to do all of them

[00:33:36] because like I'm guessing those are considered like extracurriculars right not always and I'm sure

[00:33:41] this varies by state and again I went to school in public schools in two different states

[00:33:47] um normally what you're required to do is you got to take your general classes right where you guys

[00:33:53] required to take government so you could overthrow it eventually yeah you didn't start taking

[00:33:57] government classes until like middle school so late to the game I and our key starts young

[00:34:04] I feel like I started taking government classes in like fifth grade and they called it like

[00:34:10] civics okay they're called civics or government or whatever not like high school

[00:34:14] a supreme court judge so you can change no I mean they teach you about the senate and you know

[00:34:19] legislation and like the whole chain of command if like you know the president gets killed who's

[00:34:25] next in line okay so they teach you all that stuff um before that you usually have history

[00:34:31] okay um I think history is one that you pretty much take all the way through

[00:34:36] and then I'm sure you were taught evolutionary science yes satan worship that may not be

[00:34:42] standard anymore I don't know I've read stories but um the classes you take as you get older

[00:34:48] in the cold obviously oh I'm sure uh the classes you take as you go through as you get older kind

[00:34:53] of change um do you have to play on one of the sports teams do you have to be in like theater

[00:35:00] or choir no so like I said they're your your core subjects your science math history

[00:35:07] and English are you usually your core subjects and this like I said this changes as you get older

[00:35:13] but those four usually stay the same and then you'll have electives which you're required to

[00:35:19] take electives okay but they don't necessarily dictate which one you take but they may say

[00:35:26] you got to take the four classes your four general classes um but you're required to take a

[00:35:33] uh a language class so again this varies by state but in Oklahoma at the time I could take

[00:35:42] web design or learning html which is the the language hypertext markup language it's got

[00:35:48] language in the name um that I was allowed to take that as a foreign language class okay

[00:35:55] so do you have to be in the school play is and this is all based on movies I have no

[00:36:00] fucking clear when you're when you're smaller movies with this when you're a small kid and

[00:36:04] you're in like elementary school that's when you have like plays usually those are not

[00:36:10] they may have been mandatory but I don't think it was a class it was just like a thing you did

[00:36:15] like do you have to stay after school yeah practice so when do you see your family

[00:36:21] um yeah I mean those extracurricular activities so I'll get into this but like for sports

[00:36:30] uh-huh like you always had to take PE as a class okay if you didn't and that was like built into

[00:36:35] your day yeah that was one of one class every semester you had one period it was PE that's

[00:36:41] just kind of like the general catchall they make you walk or run or play dodge ball

[00:36:46] or something like that you don't have to you have to take some sort of sport okay so it can

[00:36:50] either be the PE class which is just like general catch all general catch all or you pick a sport

[00:36:56] and that counts I've played baseball softball volleyball basketball football like I played them

[00:37:02] all okay um and that kind of changed as I got older and like I tried the different sports out

[00:37:07] like track is one two you can run you can do track as your PE class okay um so there's categories and

[00:37:16] they require those but it's not they don't force you into one unless you don't pick and then they

[00:37:21] force you into PE for your sports class but like art is usually you have to take an art class and

[00:37:27] sometimes that's they may just call it art and you do pottery or painting or whatever so what if

[00:37:32] you're really good at it and you like it like then what do you do is that's something you get lessons

[00:37:39] on outside of school or can they give you like piano lessons or pottery lessons during the

[00:37:46] school day and it counts as school that's a good question specifically with art I don't

[00:37:51] recall always having to have an art class like that wasn't required every semester

[00:37:57] um and like I had to take a home ec home economics course where they teach you to like cook and

[00:38:05] take care of a baby it was a fake one that definitely didn't happen yeah so like that wasn't

[00:38:12] that was a one-time thing like you had to take that once and that was when I lived in California

[00:38:18] I didn't end up doing that in Oklahoma but again this I was changing so that may have

[00:38:23] been a requirement um so there are classes that you may be required to take once through your

[00:38:30] education but it doesn't happen every single year so then with sports okay so so you get on the bus

[00:38:38] and then you walk into the halls of satan and then you do stuff with demons when to school end

[00:38:42] usually around three two thirty to three thirty somewhere in there and then you're on the

[00:38:47] bus for like an hour going home if so like in your case you were when I was in California

[00:38:51] the bus ride was 10 minutes they just ran the same route when it got on I got on first okay we went

[00:38:58] to the second stop we got those kids we went back to the school okay on the way home I got off first

[00:39:03] it went and dropped the other kids off but it was such a short route it didn't matter when I lived

[00:39:08] in Oklahoma in the in the bus route was an hour hour or hour and a half long they reversed the

[00:39:14] route on the way home because I got on at seven o'clock in the morning and had to ride the

[00:39:18] bus for an hour before I got to school but after school I got off first and so I I rode the bus for

[00:39:25] five minutes if that like I literally okay it it was maybe five minutes but in the morning was an hour

[00:39:32] so they reversed the route to kind of make it fair okay um going through the whole day here I get

[00:39:37] on the bus at seven ride it around for an hour get dropped off at the school at eight o'clock

[00:39:42] um class it didn't start till 8 30 and what do you do for half an hour they serve breakfast

[00:39:49] okay at school and if you were poor enough you got breakfast for free if you if your parents made

[00:39:55] too much money and you didn't qualify for the subsidized um meals which they kept track of all

[00:40:01] that stuff you just walk up to the window and tell them your name and they they keep track

[00:40:05] like a whole ecosystem yeah a kid could survive there like the whole day yeah and so I would I

[00:40:11] would get the school early hopefully the bus didn't encounter any accidents or slowdowns or whatever

[00:40:16] but I would eat breakfast at school go to classes my I wasn't doing football at one point football

[00:40:23] was my last period last class of the day so whatever two o'clock out to the football field

[00:40:30] sometimes we practice for to three or four or whatever and again like every school's different

[00:40:36] like they would they would have to be done with practice and time for kids to get back to the bus

[00:40:41] because that may be the only way home would you like shower first or would you just ride the bus

[00:40:46] all sweaty and dirty usually right now or and not every school's got lockers with showers and

[00:40:52] I'm like okay we didn't have I don't know we did yeah we had showers but yeah it was just

[00:40:58] you just go home put all your gear back in the bag put the sweaty bag in your locker and

[00:41:04] back on the bus um you leave sweaty dirty clothes in your locker don't ever open a football gear bag

[00:41:10] it smells horrible I'm sure basketball is the same way here okay put sweaty cleats into a bag

[00:41:16] and shove it in the locker and leave it and do that for every day for months on end oh my goodness

[00:41:22] I mean kids kids don't bring their stuff home they're just like it smells who cares

[00:41:26] huh uh okay so so like if there was a football game that's at night then

[00:41:35] so like on game day oh you'll enjoy this like on game day for football well mostly other sports on

[00:41:42] game day you end up wearing your your jersey to school like that's kind of like the the thing

[00:41:49] so is that the flex like oh I'm on a sports no I mean but it felt cool like you're on the football

[00:41:55] team like on game day I mean you show up wearing pants and and you know you're wearing normal clothes

[00:42:01] and you just wear you wear your jersey over the top of it okay I'm on the football team or

[00:42:06] I'm on the basketball team or the baseball team or whatever so that's how you got to show up

[00:42:12] to school that day you know you do your normal school day and then at the end of the school day

[00:42:18] like you probably hit the gym you may even have to get out of class it's a little bit early early

[00:42:23] depending on where your game is at because it's either home game and you play on your field

[00:42:28] or you got to go to a different school because you're playing them right that evening and so

[00:42:32] like maybe at three o'clock you got to go hit the bus and you ride the bus over to so wait

[00:42:39] huh now I have another question is the school responsible for busing you to the location of

[00:42:43] parents like could the parents have the option to drive you there they can okay either one

[00:42:49] okay what I usually encourage the school usually encourages you well I say the school

[00:42:55] the coaches encourage you to ride the school bus to like get focused and yeah well that and

[00:43:01] they're also like and then you're on time you're on time they know who's gonna be there

[00:43:06] they don't know who's gonna you know not last minute yeah or miss miss the game or whatever so

[00:43:11] the coaches I feel like usually encourage you to ride the bus okay it's not like safe to find safe

[00:43:18] well because like in choir tour we had stupendous bus drivers they were incredible but like our

[00:43:26] bus is almost tipped several times and bad wind and like you say safe and I've actually been in a

[00:43:33] public school bus crash oh so okay I have even more fears associated with sending kids

[00:43:40] our bus tipped over okay uh did anyone die no okay it hurt I bruised my ribs because I fell on the

[00:43:48] on the exit door because I'd like to sit on the exit row okay never don't don't finish answering

[00:43:56] that question I don't I don't need to know right now okay so yeah I'm usually like you end up riding

[00:44:02] you know the coaches tell you like hey we got a piece out of here at 230 so you know we'll pull you

[00:44:08] out of class your last class early if we have to we're gonna get on the bus we're driving over to

[00:44:13] whatever city okay you get there they usually have coaches coordinate that with your teachers

[00:44:19] okay um or they'll make an announcement over the intercom because there's like a PA system in

[00:44:23] the school okay I know that from movies so yeah you get to the other school you know they usually

[00:44:32] let you use the other locker room okay or they'll have like a guest locker room

[00:44:37] or I don't know they give you a classroom or somewhere you change in there you they usually

[00:44:41] give you a place to practice so you can do warm-ups okay apart from you know their their team

[00:44:49] and then you know the game starts at like six seven o'clock at night or whatever you do the game

[00:44:55] whatever and can you ride home with your parents after that yeah what do most people do

[00:45:01] depending on how far away it is um usually if it's far away everybody just ends up riding the

[00:45:07] bus back because not every parent is gonna drive an hour to watch the game are you a bad parent

[00:45:12] if you don't try that out parents do what they can do with work yeah and it's like balancing other

[00:45:18] kids and there's you know there's a lot of different variables there and I'm sure kids probably feel

[00:45:24] bad if you know you know oh Mike's parents showed up but mine didn't like it's all

[00:45:30] circumstantial and like every kid's situation is different so um our parents like judgey though

[00:45:36] that just depends on people like I it's a good thing I don't care about so anyways like it can be

[00:45:42] a really late the late night and you're you know I got on the bus at seven o'clock so you would

[00:45:47] have to get to school the next morning at the same time regardless oh yeah like same same old

[00:45:53] same old so like like kids need so much sleep when are you sleeping like teenagers I think need 13 hours

[00:45:59] of sleep not that I got that growing up either but I also wasn't playing football games and yeah

[00:46:04] I mean but also I mean if we skip ahead now we're teenage years maybe I'm in in high school or

[00:46:10] something like god I was up till one o'clock in the morning like teenagers become night owls

[00:46:16] and it sucked because I still had to get up at 7 30 and you know my high school was

[00:46:22] almost 30 minutes away from my house and sure I could drive I still had to get the class by

[00:46:27] eight o'clock but I wasn't going to bed till midnight one o'clock because I was awake and

[00:46:32] like that's I mean that's kind of a problem and you'll hear some stuff about that with like

[00:46:37] teenagers is like they turn into night owls but the the high schools never shift the schedule

[00:46:43] like they should be starting at like 10 a.m but they don't and so yeah it's you don't get as much

[00:46:49] sleep as you would like like at what point at what point is the parent and you're like okay you are

[00:46:56] a small adult because it sounds like if you've got like you're in high school you've got football

[00:47:03] you're gone till midnight you gotta get up and you drive yourself to class like you're basically

[00:47:09] functioning like an adult with a job oh yeah I mean like there was times where I would you know

[00:47:14] I would get up drive myself to school or I would catch a ride you know for a while I caught a ride

[00:47:20] with my cousin and he would come pick me up before I could drive and so like we just carpooled

[00:47:26] school okay um and I did that before I could drive I'm not gonna tell any stories about what we

[00:47:33] did in that car uh yeah oh definitely that's normal yeah I mean when kids get a driver's license at

[00:47:43] like 16 it's like I would know anything about that for for my generation at least like that was the thing

[00:47:51] you wanted to get your driver's license you got some independence you go wherever you didn't have

[00:47:55] to ask for permission didn't have to say hey mom can you go drop me off here or hey I want to

[00:48:00] go hang out with my friends like you could just go so like that was the big ride of passage

[00:48:07] and so if you've got older friends or hell even if your friend gets their driver's license and gets

[00:48:13] a car six months before you do it's like come pick me up like take me with you to school

[00:48:20] it's cool I understand can you like them first they're your friends no the parent the adult

[00:48:26] with a fully formed brain uh I don't know I haven't been in the situation I'm going to

[00:48:31] observe you driving before I let my child who I love into the vehicle with you but am I gonna be a

[00:48:39] very uncool parent I feel like there are definitely gonna be things you struggle with and I know

[00:48:46] we've had other conversations yeah trust well process we don't have to go down this rabbit hole

[00:48:52] but like one of the things is like sleepovers are a big thing which changes the whole dynamics of

[00:48:58] getting to and from school there would be times in which I would go stay at my friend's house

[00:49:05] well I would go stay at my friend's house but his mom was a teacher there and so

[00:49:10] I mean there were literally times I would not come home for weeks because I would especially

[00:49:15] in the summertime I would go over to my friend's house and like you just live there

[00:49:22] and you know there were sometimes where I would I could do that during the school year because

[00:49:27] and like his mom worked at the school so the routine was the same I just gotta yeah we just

[00:49:33] I rode with you know I rode with uh so like I repeat the question when do you see your family

[00:49:41] like if I have this child and then I like get attached to and love this child and then I'm like

[00:49:47] go to school uh and then they are really good at something extracurricular so they want to do

[00:49:52] all of the things or whatever uh like do you ever see them again yeah I mean it's definitely

[00:50:00] a small window like if especially if you're playing a sport and it's just a normal Tuesday

[00:50:06] and you have football practice or basketball practice whatever it is you know up at seven

[00:50:11] bus school practice catch the bus back home at four and then it just depends on how far

[00:50:18] and then yeah then you so you get home between like four and five okay and then if your parents

[00:50:23] are normal working a normal nine to five job like they come home at five and you've got

[00:50:29] you know the rest of the evening is essentially free however isn't homework a thing you still

[00:50:35] have homework um and that obviously depends on the grade it depends on the scrape the class

[00:50:41] it really like I've had teachers that are very like anti homework or like minimal amounts of

[00:50:48] homework or depending on how well everybody is learning you get more or less homework it really

[00:50:54] just depends on the teacher some of them just fucking hate kids and they're like

[00:50:58] you've got 200 questions to answer tonight come back tomorrow and we got like an hour of homework

[00:51:06] and and then they don't coordinate between classes and so your math teacher decides

[00:51:11] you have 200 you got you got a hundred algebra questions to answer and then the English teacher

[00:51:17] decides like hey I'm gonna assign you a if you know I'm gonna assign you or you gotta read

[00:51:24] this book and and write a five page essay on it and then oh well it just so happened that your

[00:51:31] your geography class has got a test tomorrow and you've got you know you're doing the pre-test

[00:51:39] for your science class that day or chemistry class that day like basically sounds like college

[00:51:44] oh it's 100% just like college but like that's in the cold obviously the education was just

[00:51:51] shoddy but like the 200 algebra questions that was just part of my school day because there

[00:51:57] there was no like teaching time it was just here's your book good luck kid figure it out

[00:52:04] so I would read the instructions in the book and then I would just do all the problems or

[00:52:08] you know this is the same with any other subject uh and then when I I wasn't done with the

[00:52:14] school day until I was done with all of that and then if I was done before I think it was three o'clock

[00:52:21] I had to fill the time with something else so I would get ahead or I would read a book and

[00:52:26] write another book report or something like that but then at like three o'clock we basically just

[00:52:31] got sent outside and then we ran around like hoodlums until dinner and then had dinner and

[00:52:36] then went back outside and ran around like hoodlums because you know TV wasn't a thing

[00:52:42] we were not allowed to watch TV we just I feel like the only good thing I can say is

[00:52:49] I got to be a kid after school unless I was being raped you know it's a it's it's a toss up there

[00:52:56] but like I could play outside and all my I guess air quotes homework happened during the day

[00:53:03] because there was no teaching yeah and I I've I've like I said I've been to many different

[00:53:08] schools and in two different states and people's or you know kids experiences are gonna vary because

[00:53:14] I have had teachers where you worked through the problems in class as a group and you didn't get

[00:53:21] homework because it was like they're gonna they're gonna run through and teach you this real quick

[00:53:26] in the first 30 minutes and the next 20 25 minutes because you usually have like 50 minute

[00:53:31] classes like the next 20 minutes they're like okay we're gonna work through the first 10 problems

[00:53:39] and the teacher will help whoever's struggling and like they work through it and so you don't

[00:53:43] end up with homework at the end of the night okay not every teacher takes that approach I don't

[00:53:48] know if there's a name for that or whatever and so it really just varies in usually when you're

[00:53:54] in the younger grades or like elementary school you know there's probably not a sport you

[00:53:59] probably have PE you get to go run around outside when you're really small you have nap time but

[00:54:04] now recess I know that from movies as well yeah yeah so that's like is that like lunch time

[00:54:10] you're running around outside or is that like it's dedicated time that's a dedicated time and that's

[00:54:14] essentially you go out to the playground what happens when it rains you do recess inside

[00:54:19] like in the gym like did most schools have an indoor area most of them have like a

[00:54:24] basketball courts they usually have a gym at least that's inside indoor basketball courts and so you

[00:54:30] end up doing recess in there okay play like dodge ball or kick ball or something or just run around

[00:54:36] and scream like everything changes as you're as you get different ages but you're less prone to

[00:54:43] have homework in the younger grades and you actually get to like you know when you get home at

[00:54:48] four o'clock or three thirty you know you're done and then like the extreme other end of that is

[00:54:54] like you know once I was 16 I would you know get to school early for football practice do school

[00:55:03] last period would be football practice whenever that's done go work from five to eight o'clock

[00:55:11] at night if you have some sort of part-time you know high school job and then you go home

[00:55:17] and maybe that's when you do your homework or you try to do your homework at work depending on

[00:55:20] what job you got and like you rinse and repeat and for all intensive purposes like you're in college

[00:55:26] at that point so you really don't actually have that long with kids to like run around and be a

[00:55:35] family oh no especially when they're playing sports or if they're playing multiple sports

[00:55:40] and if well like I mean yeah like their parents are so sad like oh my baby's growing up because

[00:55:49] well they get a lot of independence and then like if they love playing sports and especially

[00:55:53] if they play multiple sports they're gone all the time in like you know you can go watch them

[00:55:57] play their sport and you'll they're gonna be playing for an hour or two hours three hours

[00:56:02] and then you get to see them afterwards and maybe get some pizza with a bunch of the other

[00:56:06] parents and the kids on the way home and then like by the time you get home it's like all right

[00:56:10] like clean up and reset for tomorrow like you do all over again. I have to warn you if we end up with a

[00:56:16] kid who loves basketball I will turn into a different person I fucking love basketball

[00:56:22] Michael Jordan was the first love of my life and uh I just I get so like emotionally invested

[00:56:32] and even like tiny child basketball games that could be fun. I mean and so like football is like

[00:56:42] one game a week. I know nothing about football so that'll be interesting if it goes that direction.

[00:56:46] So you know you probably practice every day or every other day like on weekends too?

[00:56:52] And are there games on weekends? Not usually Friday I mean the whole Friday night lights

[00:56:58] thing is real that's usually football games on Friday night like basketball and baseball

[00:57:03] and softball like those all have a lot more games um and so that can get real crazy. Okay

[00:57:12] and that's kind of why I liked football because it was like yeah we got practice every day but

[00:57:15] we only play a game once a week um whereas if you're playing like baseball or basketball

[00:57:20] maybe you got three four games a week in weekend games and on top of all of that

[00:57:27] those are just the games and the sports you're playing for the school you're attending

[00:57:31] there's still like uh sports you can play in like in the city or the county league or whatever

[00:57:38] like my softball yeah and then like so sometimes you got two schedules and you're playing for two

[00:57:44] different teams with you know two different games and two different practices and you know

[00:57:49] baseball and basketball like those okay those are already like if you got three games a week

[00:57:53] playing baseball but you're also playing city ball and they got one one or two games a week like

[00:58:00] now you're at five games a week with you know three different practices and you're traveling for

[00:58:05] both of them and then you stack kids on top of that and you got three different kids doing

[00:58:10] the same thing that's when you see this like parent burnout where like I have zero fucking

[00:58:16] time because I am just shuttling kids from school to basketball or I'm going to pick this one

[00:58:23] up and I'm dropping this one off in cheerleading practice and then I'm taking that one to gymnastics

[00:58:28] and this one's got basketball games and like then it becomes a divide and conquer and like okay well

[00:58:34] you take that one and go there and I'll take this one and go over here and I can squeeze in

[00:58:41] dropping so and so off and then I'm gonna have Timmy's mom bring you know okay Jason home because

[00:58:48] number one this makes so much sense why there are so many like 30 minute dinner cookbooks

[00:58:54] that was kind of like irrelevant growing up because there was a daughter at home to like cook

[00:58:59] oh yeah 24 hours a day that's not normal okay so so that like suddenly that makes sense cool cool

[00:59:06] cool um another thing if we have a child like I'm gonna gender stereotype for just a moment

[00:59:14] if we have a girl who's like I want to do ballet and we have a boy who's like I want to do football

[00:59:19] I'm I'm going to like insist that you and I switch it up and sometimes you go watch the ballet recital

[00:59:25] and I go watch the football because I think it's important for daughters to see their dad like

[00:59:29] I mean most of time they're doing and I want to get smart on football if I have a kid that

[00:59:34] loves it that much so I mean it's again I I've I've grown up around a different group of people

[00:59:42] than you have in my experience has been less like gender stereotype you know less yeah less

[00:59:50] gender stereotyped and I've seen a lot of like that gets broken up purely on logistics of like mom

[00:59:57] gets off work at this time and works at this specific place in town in the football games

[01:00:03] over there so like logistically that makes the most sense and so that's how that gets broken up

[01:00:08] or dad can dad can leave work a couple minutes early and go take you know Stella to to ballet

[01:00:16] practice or dance practice and so it like I've seen that broken up a million different ways and sometimes

[01:00:24] you know when there's not ballet practice that night like everybody the whole family ends up

[01:00:29] at the football practice or the whole family ends up at dance practice or ballet or whatever

[01:00:35] because you know that's the only thing going on that night and so like but you've got another kid

[01:00:40] and you're gonna support your kids and so if both parents are involved like all the kids

[01:00:47] and parents end up at one kid's sporting event so basketball the it wasn't in the cult but there

[01:00:54] was a strong homeschool community and they set up a boys basketball team actually my ex-husband's

[01:01:00] mother set it up because my ex-husband wanted to play basketball so she formed like they formed a

[01:01:07] whole thing and then they played public schools so that was the only time we were allowed in the

[01:01:11] halls of satan because we could go into the gymnasium and sit there and watch the basketball

[01:01:20] games and then you know immediately exit so I saw that but it was like again it came from a very

[01:01:29] patriarchal perspective of it was all about the boys and all the boys and we all had to be there

[01:01:33] for the boys and we had to support them and we had to you know no one came to my well they did come

[01:01:38] to my cooler music stuff but I was I felt like for me that was just something that was like

[01:01:46] kind of mine and I did over there in the corner and like basketball was the thing for the boys

[01:01:53] I mean like I said I fucking love basketball it wasn't I loved the tournament weekends like

[01:02:00] it was fun but it was all about the boys it was just the boys and the boy sports and the boys

[01:02:06] everything but I guess I have a question for you would you send kids to public school

[01:02:15] so I personally still would I had a positive experience with it

[01:02:20] um and I'll say that even though you know in sixth grade I was going to a school in California

[01:02:27] that had metal detectors of two entrances the school and it looked like a fucking prison

[01:02:32] with how tall the fences were I don't know if that was to keep kids out or in I'm not really

[01:02:37] sure but like that was you know and this was like like almost you know almost 30 years ago

[01:02:45] and I wouldn't even say I lived in a bad area like that was

[01:02:49] let me look California but I also grew up spent a lot of time in rural Oklahoma where

[01:02:55] once high school hit there were times where public school would close down because

[01:03:01] if you're in like a farming town like you live in like a real small community where

[01:03:06] there's a lot of people that farm there the public school will straight up shut down when

[01:03:10] it's harvest season oh interesting because the kids are probably helping with that all hands on deck

[01:03:18] and it's all hands on deck and so the schools were just like fuck it we're not gonna try to keep

[01:03:22] track of you know make kids come to school like they got shit to do um I've had that

[01:03:27] experience where like okay well it the public school system works with that and I thoroughly

[01:03:32] enjoyed the social aspect of being at school I love the sports I love being around the

[01:03:37] same kids every day there was lots of kids um in my younger years in California like I was exposed to

[01:03:45] a lot of different a lot of different kids from a lot of different ethnicities and races and like

[01:03:51] I got all that exposure I feel like that was very helpful and I learned a lot of about

[01:03:55] different cultures and and all that kind of stuff and like sure there was you know you'd

[01:04:01] see the fights at school or something like that um and I've seen a lot of fights

[01:04:05] were you having one no okay um not that I can recall um like overall I feel like I had a very

[01:04:13] positive experience in the public school systems I feel like we've come back full circle you had

[01:04:18] a positive experience I mean it is and like my experience was I feel like it was a positive

[01:04:25] experience so I would I would go back in the public school systems at least based on my

[01:04:30] experience and granted that could have completely changed and it's not the same this day I that I

[01:04:35] haven't researched so maybe my opinion would change after learning but I I also went to a

[01:04:41] university or started off at a university that had a program for teachers like whatever that degree

[01:04:48] is for like becoming a teacher so I know a ton of teachers and I know they're all care a lot

[01:04:56] about their students and they put a ton of effort into all the learning principles and like how to

[01:05:02] best help their kids and I know that they like will take money out of their own pocket to make sure

[01:05:08] that kids have supplies so they can like do stuff and so I think I've had so many positive experiences

[01:05:15] with the public school system you know I wouldn't have any issue with that but again that

[01:05:20] could change if it's not like it was so I guess based off of all of that

[01:05:27] what do you think about putting kids in public schools?

[01:05:33] I don't know I don't know I mean just because I don't know anything about it I've researched

[01:05:39] Montessori schools and I like that model from like a just developmental and learning lens

[01:05:47] but I also never went to Montessori school so I mean for me if slash when I'm a parent someday

[01:05:53] anytime I send a kid into any school building it's going to be like good luck in their kid

[01:05:58] don't know what's going to happen to you today talk to your dad about it I'm here to love you

[01:06:02] I got like I'm gonna learn I'm gonna support you I'm gonna love you to death but like

[01:06:07] I have nothing to give you to help you until you get to college that's when my

[01:06:13] lived experience starts with education outside of the home so I mean high school in junior high is

[01:06:25] roughly so similar to college like I feel like you'd probably be pretty comfortable at that point

[01:06:31] it's more just I don't know the social dynamics I don't know I mean it sounds like I could the

[01:06:36] schedule sounds a lot like college and other things I've experienced but you know what goes on

[01:06:43] in a classroom I can't tell them what to expect I couldn't tell a kid you know what their day is

[01:06:48] gonna look like I couldn't tell a kid how the social dynamics work preemptively I could help them

[01:06:54] figure out stuff that happens but I can be like here are here are five things to know going

[01:07:00] into your first year of school like I got nothing for that so I think that'll be a very interesting

[01:07:07] time in our marriage in terms of I'm probably gonna need to lean on you a lot for that and I

[01:07:14] think it's going to be a very interesting time for me just in terms of there's going to be

[01:07:20] a significant learning curve I mean definitely it's it's going to be a little bit of a shock

[01:07:25] to you if we go that route like I I never heard of Montessori school until you said something you

[01:07:31] know a while back and I looked at that and I was like that sounds cool too and I know there's a lot

[01:07:37] of like different types of schools out there now where they you know teach them a lot more tech

[01:07:41] stuff or like their STEM oriented you know elementary and middle schools which that wasn't

[01:07:47] even a that wasn't even an option so maybe we should send kids to Montessori because it

[01:07:51] kind of level the playing field because neither of us what I think I wouldn't do

[01:07:58] is like private schools okay would you home school potentially like but again like the thing I enjoyed

[01:08:07] you know as a kid the thing I enjoyed about public schools was the social aspect of it and

[01:08:12] seeing the seeing my friends there every day you have to be very intentional as a family that

[01:08:17] educates at home to you know participate in all of that I would it's possible it's doing yeah we didn't

[01:08:23] do it yeah but I know lots of people who home school today who have robust community they probably

[01:08:29] don't see like the kids probably don't see each other with the same consistency that you saw your

[01:08:35] friends at public school every day but from what I understand they get lots of socialization

[01:08:40] yeah so I know there's a lot of different options out there so I guess I'm not fully

[01:08:44] I personally don't want to I personally don't want to educate kids at home if that's something

[01:08:52] you were like yeah I really want to do that I want to take it on I would I would consider it with you

[01:08:57] I would support you uh I don't know I have a lot of mixed feelings about all things education

[01:09:07] pre-college because I don't you know I don't have anything I can look back on and draw from

[01:09:13] occult with really insufficient education opportunities yeah and there's we didn't super

[01:09:19] dive into this but I think we have in previous episodes like there's a whole lot of you know

[01:09:24] dances there's you know oh lord there's you know like just regular that's right again I know that

[01:09:29] for movies you have like prom and that kind of stuff and apparently all the kids have sex

[01:09:35] yeah or is that just hollywood I mean at a certain age that becomes an objective

[01:09:44] I mean and then also you have kids that are just like well we're 14 like we gotta try alcohol

[01:09:50] and you know that becomes an objective and you know obviously every kid's different and some

[01:09:54] of them want to try that and some of them don't want to try that but you definitely are

[01:09:58] exposed to that and you definitely you know even if you don't care about that you probably

[01:10:03] will experience you know someone else some other kid that's trying to oh yeah um so yeah I mean you're

[01:10:10] I don't know because I'm not I'm not one of those people that like you must shelter them so they

[01:10:16] never know about you know drugs and alcohol or you must shelter them from whatever it is

[01:10:21] because you don't want them to be that like I that's not my style and I think that was

[01:10:30] I don't know I don't think I'm throwing my mom under the bus on this but like

[01:10:35] she didn't shelter me but she'd also kept an eye on things and made sure I was not straying too far

[01:10:43] off course there um but you know I was around people that are probably not great but it wasn't

[01:10:49] like we must never see that person it's just like you know when you see that person maybe

[01:10:54] don't do the yeah it's like yeah don't listen to what you know uncle Steve's a little weird don't pay

[01:10:59] attention to him and it's just like okay you know like these these people are smoking you know like

[01:11:06] let's not stand over there but like they don't do their thing they're gonna go outside and they're

[01:11:11] gonna smoke so like in my family and the cult if someone started drinking alcohol it was like run away

[01:11:16] run away well I mean the first time I tried beer was I was probably six oh my god okay that's

[01:11:23] a little young I bet it was it was controlled I was in the garage with my dad and it was just like

[01:11:29] he always had a beer he was always working he did a lot of welding stuff and so he'd be welding

[01:11:34] shit out in the garage and I would hang out out there with him and he'd have Bud Budweiser

[01:11:39] that's what he drank and I remember one time drinking that and I was just like this is fucking

[01:11:44] a whole yeah I was six I didn't say that I was like this is horrible and disgusting spit it out

[01:11:48] and like that was the first time I tried alcohol and I didn't try I didn't have another drink of alcohol

[01:11:54] until I was 27 okay so I mean that's one of those things where I'm just like if I had a teenager who's

[01:12:01] like I want to try beer I'd be like okay you're gonna like then we'll drink a beer together and

[01:12:07] you can see if you like it I would much rather like demystify it and have a kid experiment with

[01:12:15] something like that you know hopefully I would have cultivated a safe enough relationship with them

[01:12:20] where they could tell me hey mom I want to try a beer yeah and then and then you get to help

[01:12:28] you know make sure that it's a safe experience instead of you know kill drunk driving or something

[01:12:34] I've experienced both those things and I like I didn't technically you know have alcohol till I was

[01:12:40] 27 but even when I was in high school I knew several people that got killed either they were

[01:12:48] drunk drivers or you know they were in just some sort of car accident or you know I know somebody

[01:12:53] that a couple kids that were in the same vehicle and one of them was drunk and the passenger wasn't

[01:12:59] and they died the passenger died yeah and so I've had a ton of bad experiences with that

[01:13:06] and I've been over at parents house where they do that controlled thing and they're like yeah you

[01:13:11] shouldn't be doing this but we're gonna let's get this out of the way but yeah I'm definitely not

[01:13:16] the type to like helicopter that much and I know some people do and you know everybody can do

[01:13:21] what they want but I guess my style is TPD we'll see I know I don't like sleepovers

[01:13:28] you and I probably can have some interesting conversations about that that's a hard one

[01:13:31] because I spent so much time at other people's houses so much time how lucky that you were not

[01:13:38] raped throughout your childhood so I don't know I'm gonna have to think about that one we'll have

[01:13:44] to come back to that one because that that is a contested topic for us but yeah I think we were

[01:13:50] just told so much like public schools you know I jokingly call it the halls of Satan but also

[01:13:56] I mean I was terrified of them growing up because that's where kids went and they

[01:14:00] learned to do drugs and have sex and drink alcohol and it does happen and but I mean I was a fully

[01:14:09] launched adult before I found out not everyone who goes to public school is a drug addict by the

[01:14:17] time they're 14 okay well thanks for educating me about the public school system

[01:14:24] and there's a lot to learn there and like I said we didn't even get into the whole all the social

[01:14:31] activities that go around that you know outside of sports and your schedule so I hope you and

[01:14:40] learn some stuff I did I I feel like my brains at well not my brain my emotions are at their

[01:14:50] capacity for this conversation it's a lot to take in and when I say it's a lot to take in like

[01:14:57] the logistics of it I think it's more just the realization that as a parent I'm going to be

[01:15:03] severely limited in ways I can connect with and help a child who's going through a normal

[01:15:10] education at least for a time and I'm not the sort of person where I'm like oh I'm

[01:15:13] limited it's going to be like that forever I expect myself to learn and grow and change and

[01:15:19] figure it out so I think it'll just be a pretty intense learning curve I'm sure I'm sure it's

[01:15:25] going to be hard and you'll have to put some effort into it but I can guide you through that it'll

[01:15:30] it'll be okay all right well I think that wraps up this episode on the halls of Satan thanks

[01:15:38] for coming along I'm on a on a ride with us that was a pretty organic conversation

[01:15:45] yes so yeah if you enjoyed this conversation and yeah please like share subscribe all that kind of

[01:15:53] fun stuff if you're enjoying the podcast and if you want to send us any messages or ask us any

[01:16:00] questions you can do that in the show description or you can do that over at the website cultilef

[01:16:05] behind.com or social media or social media and the others also links in the episode description

[01:16:12] on the website if you would like to support the podcast we'll be back next Monday thanks for

[01:16:18] listening to another episode of the cult I left behind until next time don't join a cult if you

[01:16:25] enjoyed this podcast please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode