36 - I Hate Mother's Day

[00:00:00] Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast.

[00:00:05] I'm your host, Amanda Briggs, and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the

[00:00:11] IBLP cult which you might know from the Duggar family.

[00:00:15] And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs.

[00:00:17] I am Amanda's husband and I have not heard most of these stories before so stay tuned

[00:00:22] and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:30] Alright welcome back to the next episode.

[00:00:33] What do you have for us today, Amanda?

[00:00:35] Well, when this releases it will be the day after Mother's Day.

[00:00:42] So I thought we'd talk about Chris and Mother's Day.

[00:00:49] It's not my favorite holiday.

[00:00:51] Can imagine.

[00:00:53] And also, we've gotten so many questions from listeners and we love that you guys

[00:00:59] send these in.

[00:01:01] We would have to do a Q&A episode every other episode at this point I think to keep up.

[00:01:08] So a thought we had was we're going to try answering one or two questions at the beginning

[00:01:13] of each episode and we'll still do some Q&A episodes but we're going to test this out

[00:01:19] and see how it works.

[00:01:21] So we did have a question from a listener named Jen about Chris that I thought might

[00:01:29] help us kick off this episode.

[00:01:32] So Jen asked, I'm listening to episode 27 right now and for reference I had to go back and

[00:01:38] look but that's a day in the life of a cold kid.

[00:01:41] So I'm listening to episode 27 right now and had a thought.

[00:01:44] I wonder if Chris was so checked out because this wasn't the life she wanted and she

[00:01:49] felt trapped in the relationship.

[00:01:51] Do you think she was happy with her life?

[00:01:53] Do you think she was depressed or even suicidal?

[00:01:56] Now I do appreciate that Jen sent a follow up message saying something along the lines of

[00:02:01] not that it excuses anything she did but it's interesting because I think we've gotten

[00:02:08] variations of this question in the past like did she just have postpartum?

[00:02:16] I think someone else has asked in the past if she was trapped or if she was living the

[00:02:22] life she wanted and I don't know if I'm being completely honest like this is a very hard

[00:02:31] topic for me because I get it everyone else who didn't grow up as her child y'all can

[00:02:38] look at it from the outside in and you know analyze stuff and think of stuff like depression

[00:02:48] postpartum growing up as her kid it was just hell.

[00:02:54] So I oh man it's just it's a hard one for me because I have a lot of compassion for mental

[00:03:06] health issues.

[00:03:08] I also really don't like Chris so it's like this is tough.

[00:03:17] So if we break down the question was she checked out because it wasn't the life she wanted and

[00:03:24] she felt trapped in the relationship.

[00:03:27] Chris and Rick were like 14 and 17 when they met they were high school age sweethearts

[00:03:36] they were ooey gooey and love I mean that's how they always presented it they were all

[00:03:41] over each other I mean they fought like cats and dogs but when they weren't fighting

[00:03:45] they were very lovey-dovey and Chris was in the driver's seat with a lot of the Coltie

[00:03:54] stuff like if you remember from the Christmas episode she was like our kids are gonna turn

[00:04:02] into Satan worshipers if we have a Christmas tree so we're not gonna have you know so

[00:04:06] like I think she had plenty of agency when it came to Coltie shit and she didn't say no

[00:04:15] she she leaned into it as much if not more than Rick did and as far as I know they're

[00:04:22] still married so I don't think she felt trapped in the relationship and I think she

[00:04:30] did want the life she had I don't I was that normal for women in the Colt like they get I

[00:04:39] mean obviously they're heavily oppressed just by nature of this Colt do you think that they

[00:04:48] were okay with a lot of that I think so like you think they just were like I yeah I wanted

[00:04:55] to be a stay-at-home mom anyway so this is perfect I keep popping out kids and I don't

[00:05:00] have to work I think some of them I mean Chris didn't want to work and she didn't want to go back

[00:05:08] to school I think she did like a year of college or a semester of college or something and didn't

[00:05:14] like it and I remember hearing her say many times that she wanted a big family which is

[00:05:23] interesting because when you talk to her siblings whom I'm not in touch with anymore but

[00:05:28] back in the day they would talk about how much they hated when she babysat them like she was always

[00:05:33] just mad at them and didn't like kids no so I don't I don't know but the message Chris always

[00:05:39] gave was that she wanted a big family and both Chris and Rick loved babies they loved love

[00:05:48] love babies and I think they got baby fever which worked great with Colt ideology anyways

[00:05:55] but I don't think they considered that babies are only babies for a short time and then they become

[00:06:04] children and young adults that you have to handle responsibly so they were both great with babies

[00:06:14] but not so awesome at being parents of anything other than a tiny infant newborn child thing

[00:06:22] interesting yeah I mean I could see when you're having that many kids like you can stay in baby

[00:06:29] fever for a decade like constantly because it's just like nine months kid do it again

[00:06:40] nine more months kid like every year it's baby it was like every two years yeah I mean roughly

[00:06:48] um but yeah like you can stay in that baby phase for a long time so I wonder if they just got caught

[00:06:54] in that cycle we're like we love babies and so we're just gonna keep doing this and then not

[00:07:00] really thinking of the consequences like oh we're on kid five but now number one is seven

[00:07:06] and I don't like that seven year olds are suck like another kid or another baby yeah well

[00:07:16] like it was a coping mechanism or something just like more babies by kid five their oldest was 12

[00:07:24] so the first four were spread out kind of reasonably the first four came over 10 years

[00:07:31] and then after me it was like two two two four so 20 years span and then Abigail was eight

[00:07:42] so the youngest was eight when their oldest got married and then a couple years later Andrea

[00:07:48] started cranking out babies so there were a lot of babies always I guess it sounds like it

[00:07:58] so in terms of was it the life she wanted I don't know but it was the life she said she wanted

[00:08:06] hmm and then do you think she was happy with her life I would say no just based on her

[00:08:16] anger and how checked out she was whether or not it was the life she wanted like whether

[00:08:22] or not that statement was true I don't think she was happy she also hated herself she hated herself

[00:08:31] so much which is crazy like I really don't like the woman but she was objectively beautiful

[00:08:42] I thought she was the most gorgeous thing ever as a kid and I would just like watch her in awe

[00:08:50] I thought she was so beautiful but she hated herself and she would nitpick herself and then

[00:08:59] she would nitpick us so I had a lot of work to do as an adult around all of that but

[00:09:05] she just I would say more of her distress and depression and anger came from her own self

[00:09:13] loathing than the circumstances of her life in the cult and when I say she hated herself it

[00:09:19] wasn't like oh I beat my kids up I hate myself for that no like she hated her appearance

[00:09:26] so it was all like beauty stuff like she just it was all body image yeah like the woman had eight

[00:09:32] kids but I don't know maybe I think about things differently I never thought I never thought anything

[00:09:43] negative about her or how she looked so yeah but she like she just loathed herself

[00:09:53] and her siblings have told me again this was a long time ago but they told me she was like that even as

[00:09:59] a kid she hated herself so I think I've mentioned on here that growing up she would make me get

[00:10:05] on a scale in front of her every week and she had a number I was not allowed to go over and the

[00:10:11] phrase she would tell me is well when I went over that number I hated myself so if you do you're

[00:10:17] gonna hate yourself too so like the number was anorexic it was anorexic and the woman had eight

[00:10:29] kids so was she gonna be an anorexic number no so I think she hated herself because of that

[00:10:38] and it just made her very cruel do you think that played into her falling into a woman's role in

[00:10:50] the cult because she already had all this body image issues and starved herself like all the

[00:11:01] things of the cult was kind of forcing on women anyways like it sounds like she was already kind

[00:11:06] of doing some of those things yeah yeah or at least it made it easy for her to transition into that

[00:11:14] and it wasn't like it wasn't a shock and that was also the 90s like I think most women in the 90s

[00:11:22] had a needing disorder anyways so I don't know if that's even gone away actually um but yeah

[00:11:31] I think I think she was trapped in a body she didn't like not she was trapped in a cult she

[00:11:36] didn't like and then what was the rest of the question do you think she was depressed or suicidal

[00:11:42] I think she was definitely depressed I have no idea if she suffered with postpartum I don't know

[00:11:48] if she would have known if she suffered with postpartum because you weren't allowed to be

[00:11:52] depressed in the cult you had to have the joy of the Lord in your heart and if you didn't

[00:11:56] you were sinning so gotta push that way down yeah and then in terms of being suicidal again I have no

[00:12:06] idea but I know she wasn't happy she was a very unhappy angry person so I guess I don't know what

[00:12:19] to say about Chris when people ask me these questions because on one hand I want to take

[00:12:23] it seriously because it's mental health because it's women's issues because it's stuff I really care about

[00:12:30] on the other hand I've had some severe battles with mental health severe and especially in 2021

[00:12:41] and 2022 when I was very ill and nearly died I struggled so much with my mental health during

[00:12:50] that time I was in so much physical pain I wanted to be dead during that time and I know I would snap

[00:13:01] at you Kyle but I would I would feel so bad and I think can correct me if I'm wrong but

[00:13:08] I think I always circled back and apologized and and like therapy isn't mean when I go to

[00:13:17] therapy I'm like and then I said this stupid thing like my therapist is my my priest and that's

[00:13:24] confessional and we talk about it we talk about how I can do better when I'm you know coping with

[00:13:30] horrible things so I guess it's all these issues I care about but also I think it's incumbent

[00:13:39] upon you as an adult to take responsibility for that and work on it and do better yeah I mean

[00:13:46] you have to have some level of self-awareness to know what it is you're doing good and bad

[00:13:52] and to recognize like well I hate my life and I hate my body and I'm taking it out on my kids and

[00:13:59] I'm just uh you know not a good person to be around you can't just like stay there forever

[00:14:07] and be like all right I've raised these kids I've raised eight kids and now they're all

[00:14:12] out of the house and I still hate my life and I'm still gonna be angry and grumpy and pissed off all

[00:14:17] the time and don't like what I see in the mirror like that will never end you have to at some point

[00:14:24] yeah change or acknowledge that and work on it you know I don't know the woman anymore maybe

[00:14:31] that's something she's worked on but no I mean sometimes she would circle back and apologize

[00:14:38] but she was like this like I literally thought she was demon possessed as a child if I'm being

[00:14:45] completely honest the words that come to mind to this day when I think of Chris are things like

[00:14:51] evil wicked harmful that bitch she's one of the only people in the world I have ever I've

[00:15:02] I've used the C word to describe two people ever Chris and my oldest sister Andrea um yeah let's see

[00:15:13] I just I can't conjure up tons of compassion for her like she beat me too many times she

[00:15:20] screamed at me she called me a horn slut too many times like she said some of the

[00:15:25] worst things that have ever been said to me yeah like some of the most damaging things that

[00:15:32] have ever been said to me came out of that woman's mouth and so getting back to Mother's Day it's

[00:15:39] why I kind of hate the holiday um and and I have my adoptive mom now which that you know helps

[00:15:47] with Mother's Day stuff but but like it's just infuriating because growing up oh my gosh

[00:15:56] while this woman was beating us she was still the best mother ever no one had a better mom than our

[00:16:03] mom you know and god the things we've put in Mother's Day cards and then and all of the

[00:16:12] tributes and all this shit and she was like whipping us you know so it like the level of

[00:16:20] dissociation or Stockholm syndrome or whatever it was I mean it ran so deep and I saw the

[00:16:26] be most disgusting thing um I occasionally Facebook stalk my bio family haven't done

[00:16:35] it in a really long time because one of the last times I did it uh I found my littlest sister so

[00:16:43] the youngest one I found her um Facebook page and it was public and she had just like done this

[00:16:50] massive rant about how amazing Rick and Chris are what wonderful parents they are and it like

[00:16:57] it made me feel physically ill because that means she's that brainwashed still and like I found Abigail

[00:17:08] curled up in a ball on the floor as a little toddler baby thing crying because Chris told her

[00:17:13] she was fat because she had toddler chub like my god and and she was destroyed like

[00:17:24] I could probably go out in a limb and say most of the worst things my biological siblings have

[00:17:30] ever had said about them came from that woman's mouth and their worst battles are probably

[00:17:37] Chris induced shit she said and put on them that is still in their head like it's still a voice

[00:17:47] she's I'm getting so much better at this and I'm grateful for that but in a lot of ways

[00:17:52] but in a lot of ways Chris is still that like evil voice in my head that I hear

[00:17:59] that I have to turn off and replace with my voice which is much kinder and far more compassionate

[00:18:08] especially toward myself and so no I just like I don't know I think a lot of all the questions

[00:18:20] we've gotten about Chris have come from women and I think like my generous reading of that is

[00:18:28] these are women who cannot imagine doing to their children what Chris did yeah I mean like even the

[00:18:35] calling your your little baby fat like all babies come out they look like the Michelin tire man

[00:18:42] with like nine rolls on their thighs and if they don't there's a problem like they're supposed

[00:18:47] to have nine rolls on yeah and most of time they're just like oh the rolls and he's like

[00:18:52] it's a cute thing and for her to just instantly lay into like your fat like that's abnormal

[00:19:01] I guess is the best way of putting it okay that's good to know um but obviously you have a lot of

[00:19:08] disdain and like negative emotions towards her at what point did that like start was that I was

[00:19:16] I was maybe four or five and that was the worst thing because you know she would say

[00:19:25] you know the mom phrase that I hope is dying off with the boomer generation of like well I'm sorry

[00:19:30] I was just such a terrible parent like oh you have to go to therapy well I did my best you know like

[00:19:38] oh come on people like admit when you've caused your kids trauma and be grateful they're talking

[00:19:44] to you about it because it means they still care about you I would never tell Chris about my trauma

[00:19:50] like I don't care about her enough to include her in my healing journey so I guess to parents

[00:19:57] if your kids are telling you how you traumatize them that's good it means they still want a

[00:20:02] relationship with you please listen to them but anyways um where was I going with that

[00:20:10] I was asking like at what point did you oh the disdain yeah no like that was the hard thing

[00:20:18] I knew I was more emotionally intelligent than her before I hit double digits and and she would

[00:20:25] shame me like I never said that to her I never said that but she'd be like you just think you're

[00:20:30] smarter than I am and like you're not gonna like I was like I have more self-awareness as a

[00:20:37] four-year-old than you did as a 40 year old and I mean I can hear it I'm I am aware that even now

[00:20:46] talking about her like there is anger coming through there's disdain coming through like

[00:20:51] you signed up for real and raw with this podcast so I'm not even gonna apologize for it like this

[00:20:56] is just where I am that like she's not a happy memory she's not a happy she was

[00:21:03] just terrible so what would you do like on Mother's Day like even though you didn't like her

[00:21:11] did you still write happy things in her cards oh my gosh okay so there is a there is a comedian

[00:21:17] her name is Taylor Tomlinson look up her I forget if it's Father's Day I think it's her

[00:21:24] Father's Day bit have you seen this Kyle oh because she's like when you're a kid you walk

[00:21:29] in to the Hallmark store and any card that's like you're a wonderful dad you're the best dad ever

[00:21:36] and then you're like a teenager or an adult and you're like I need a card uh you've always been

[00:21:43] there for me nope you've loved me through everything nope and then she's like do you have

[00:21:50] a card that's like you are a dad it is Father's Day the end and I eventually got there with Chris

[00:21:58] because I did I told party line I totally believe she was the best mom ever even while she was beating

[00:22:04] me and all of the things not protecting me and and I would I would do all of the flowery stuff

[00:22:14] and by the time I left for college Mother's Day would stress me the fuck out because it's like

[00:22:21] what do you say what kind of card like there are expectations and and I don't want to say

[00:22:27] you're the best mom ever and I love you so much and you're wonderful and you're always there for me

[00:22:31] and you love and support me through everything because you're like a bitch and I don't like you

[00:22:35] but I have to give you a card and a gift and and it was just so gosh

[00:22:46] you know people's people get real upset about cutting ties with your parents with your biological

[00:22:56] parents or family in general we have this like toxic attachment to family and and I wish I had a

[00:23:03] great family that I could be really close with don't get me wrong I do but for people who have

[00:23:09] abusive toxic family members the healthiest thing they can do the best way they can go about

[00:23:14] breaking abuse cycles so that they don't

[00:23:18] like continue that line of harm is sometimes you just have to cut ties and that is okay and we

[00:23:27] should be more supportive of that as a society because it is fucking hard if you are at the

[00:23:32] point where you're not speaking to your parents anymore like you have gone through agony

[00:23:38] reaching that decision it wasn't some flippant thing like oh they pissed me off about something

[00:23:45] they pissed me off about something minor now I'm never speaking to them again it's like

[00:23:48] they broke your fucking heart and abused you and were toxic and gaslit you and like insert whatever it is

[00:23:57] it's you know how I said like you have to go through hell to leave a cult you have to go

[00:24:01] through hell to cut off your biological family it is not easy and people don't want to do it

[00:24:07] I didn't want to do it I wanted Chris to be a good person I could love and I remember being in

[00:24:12] college and getting a little space from her and realizing she was a bad person like she she just

[00:24:23] wasn't good or kind she was really abusive and toxic and and just nasty to me and I wanted a mom so

[00:24:33] badly I wanted a mom and when I was going through hard things my freshman year I would call her

[00:24:39] I called her a lot and she was just so mean to me she was so mean to me when I would call for help

[00:24:45] and support she would just say the the nastiest shit to me I don't even feel like talking about it

[00:24:50] right now and by the second semester of my first year I would when something happened that I wanted

[00:24:59] a mom like you just want your mom sometimes I would have to put my phone on the other side

[00:25:07] of my dorm so that I wouldn't pick up the phone and call her because I knew she would hurt me more

[00:25:12] and I would sit there on my bed and like wrap my arms around my knees and cry because I just

[00:25:17] wanted a mom and yeah I had to keep my phone like out of reach until I broke the habit of

[00:25:24] calling her and letting her hurt me more and I mean it that fucks you up that is brutal

[00:25:35] that you had to go through that much I mean discipline and self-restraint to not call your

[00:25:42] mom like that's not the way it should be no and like Kyle do you remember it's such a human thing

[00:25:49] like I think it's called on tech dependency you just you want your parents who birthed

[00:25:55] than gave you life and when I was dying in 2022 like I called for my mom and it was really

[00:26:12] emotionally confusing because the mom I love is Rhonda my adoptive mom but in that like

[00:26:18] visceral moment of what I was going through medically like I wanted Chris and it didn't

[00:26:26] make sense to me like I don't want her but it was like my cells my DNA wanted where I came from

[00:26:38] and like obviously that still messes me up because it doesn't even make sense to me now

[00:26:49] I mean I understand from like a psychological medical all of that stuff I understand it

[00:26:55] academically but I still haven't wrapped my heart and my emotions around the fact that I

[00:27:06] still wanted someone so bad in such a vulnerable moment I can't like this is why I hate Mother's

[00:27:15] Day and side note if you have a biological mother who has harmed you and you have a

[00:27:29] strained relationship or no relationship like you're not alone I'm I'm guessing Mother's Day

[00:27:36] wasn't your favorite day either and I hope you had love and support around you um yeah it's

[00:27:49] so I'm guessing your siblings didn't all feel the same way you did about Chris

[00:27:56] I don't think even to this day um again it's it's been a long time since I had contact

[00:28:05] with most of my siblings and last I heard she was the best mom ever

[00:28:12] so how did she react to Mother's Day when she was getting all these cards saying like

[00:28:19] you're the greatest thing ever even though she hates herself and she's abusing her children

[00:28:24] and not protecting our children from her other children how was she like reacting to all some

[00:28:32] others like all happy clapping normal yeah just like oh you guys are so sweet you know we would do

[00:28:40] the breakfast and bed thing for Mother's Day and Father's Day we'd all go trooping in with

[00:28:48] the tray of breakfast and our cards and all the shit and oh I was all just so happy love you like

[00:28:58] I don't know I Chris was a light switch like she was on or off when she was on it was usually

[00:29:05] just in public I guess I don't know I don't I don't have lots of good memories of her um

[00:29:12] do you remember if after Mother's Day that changed things for her was she nicer after

[00:29:19] no no it didn't matter no no so didn't even get a little reprieve of all the uh sucking up

[00:29:28] uh no not really I'm trying to think of like a single golden memory I have

[00:29:35] of where she was actually interacting with me uh

[00:29:43] I got nothing there maybe one time when I was really really little and she was brushing my hair

[00:29:56] no she was it was it was bedtime she was putting me to bed the night I decided I was going to be a

[00:30:02] grown-up because she used to sit there and like sing songs and stuff because I shared a room

[00:30:09] like until we were all mostly asleep and then there was a night where I think I was the last one

[00:30:18] awake and she was still like sitting there and I told her she didn't have to wait with me I was

[00:30:25] going to be a big kid and I could go to sleep by myself so I don't know I must have been

[00:30:29] like four three or four at that point because I think I only had I must have been four because

[00:30:37] I think Adam had been born and she was like are you sure because I'll stay with you

[00:30:45] and I was like no I can be brave I can be a big kid she was like okay and she left and then I was

[00:30:52] like oh no I don't want to be a big kid but I was like no I said I was gonna be a big kid

[00:31:01] so now I have to be brave and I didn't call her back and I went to sleep and and like that was a

[00:31:06] turning point where now I was a big kid and I could go to sleep by myself and I think that's

[00:31:12] like that's that's what I got for peaceful memories where there wasn't any guilt or

[00:31:18] manipulation or snide comments or like I could tell you a thousand and one stories of her being

[00:31:25] nasty I can tell you like one and a half stories of her being a mom that was nice to have

[00:31:36] that ever changed like as she had your younger siblings oh no or it is just did it get worse

[00:31:43] well I don't think she beat Abigail I don't think she beat Abigail she beat Alec he's the youngest boy

[00:31:50] um but I think she was always like evil and manipulative to like examples okay so

[00:32:02] before I went through puberty and God act me and you know all the stuff like being a teenager girl

[00:32:09] is horrible um she would tell me she was so proud of my peaches and cream skin and then the minute

[00:32:17] I lost my peaches and cream skin it was embarrassing to her like that like that kind of I know you're

[00:32:25] shaking your head and stuff people can't see that but like it I got a million of those

[00:32:34] I got a million of those like she couldn't just say you look pretty it was

[00:32:41] it was like there was always something you know a lot of mothers are always telling their

[00:32:48] daughters not to put makeup on or like don't wear too much makeup or whatever she would make me go

[00:32:55] put more makeup on because she didn't want to be embarrassed by me or like I looked too pale I

[00:33:01] needed more blush she would send me back into the house to put on more makeup and stuff like

[00:33:08] that so it sounds like she tied every year or at least the girl's self worth uh to their

[00:33:18] appearance which is no surprise because it sounds like how she attributed her own self

[00:33:24] worth was her appearance and that would be a thing like I would come home from college oh

[00:33:29] gosh I'm remembering all this stuff now and before oh it's good to see you it would

[00:33:34] be a comment about my weight or my hair or my skin or my makeup one time we went to see Andrea

[00:33:43] while she was at college and I remember what Andrea was wearing it was like a pair of jeans

[00:33:52] and a t-shirt like totally normal college human attire and Chris told her you're never gonna

[00:33:59] find a husband dressed like that you look terrible and Andrea cried and there I was like

[00:34:05] comforting my big sister who was crying because Chris had just said she looked ugly you know like

[00:34:14] I guess I spent a lot of time comforting my siblings about what Chris said to them

[00:34:20] because it wasn't just the girls like I remember doing that for my brothers too

[00:34:23] yeah did she have the same beauty standards for the boys did she ever tell them oh you're

[00:34:31] you're too fat or I think so you've got acne I think so yeah so there's no at least one of

[00:34:41] my brothers had a needing disorder too yeah um she sounds like a nightmare to deal with

[00:34:53] I'm trying to decide if I should feel bad for like calling her a bitch on a podcast that people in

[00:34:59] 135 countries listen to but also like I don't care right now like I just I wish I could say you

[00:35:09] know oh I just wish her the best and all of that but I don't actually feel it that way

[00:35:19] I do think so I get asked up millions of times well that's hyperbole but dozens and dozens of

[00:35:27] times are you an atheist are you an atheist now after everything you've been through and like no

[00:35:31] I'm actually not an atheist I just don't do Christianity and I don't think Christianity

[00:35:38] has got God right at least not completely um but I do believe in a higher power and I think we're all

[00:35:49] part of that and I do think that when Chris reaches the end of this life and she goes back to where

[00:35:57] our souls are from I think she's gonna have a real hard moment when she realizes how terrible

[00:36:03] she was and I don't feel bad for that either I think that that's karma I don't expect her to

[00:36:16] reach out and try to make it right in this life and I'm okay with the discomfort she's gonna face someday

[00:36:26] when she realizes the extent of the harm she caused and she can't hide from it anymore

[00:36:32] and she can't put her own you know gas lighting and narcissism over the top of it and make herself

[00:36:38] feel better about it like that's all gonna get stripped away and she's gonna have to

[00:36:43] see who she was and I don't think that's gonna be a fun moment and I'm okay with that

[00:36:51] yeah I would imagine that is not gonna be a pleasant realization whenever that happens

[00:36:59] yeah so I don't know I would like this episode to be more than just like

[00:37:07] Chris sucks I guess I don't have a lot more than that I don't think anybody's gonna blame you for

[00:37:14] having a bad view of her um it sounds like she was whatever was happening for whatever reason

[00:37:23] she just wasn't a very good mom and it makes sense to not be happy about that and be angry about that

[00:37:35] and I think the cult just egged it all on like they sold whipping implements and

[00:37:41] promoted horrible parenting and discipline practices and just kind of fueled her fire

[00:37:47] and she either wasn't self-aware enough or didn't care enough to recognize that

[00:37:54] she in her own personality and issues was causing harm and the harm was amplified by the cult

[00:38:01] empowering her to be abusive so it was it was just a real bad situation and if you grow up

[00:38:11] like that too my heart breaks for you and I'm so sorry and a parent definitely should not have treated

[00:38:18] you like that a parent is supposed to be the safest fucking place in the world I know I am

[00:38:23] not unique in the sense in terms of having a really abusive mother um yeah so to all of us

[00:38:33] I'm so sorry we didn't deserve that we never ever should have gone through that

[00:38:40] and the other thing that I guess another topic for another day but like the role Rick played

[00:38:47] in enabling her because we told him what she did to us and he didn't take it seriously or if

[00:38:58] he did believe us he didn't do anything like I never saw him effectively intervene

[00:39:05] or like tell her no we're not buying whipping implements from the cult

[00:39:12] like together I think they were just bad parents and then you put the cult on top of that

[00:39:21] and it enabled and empowered their bad behavior and they they were I don't know too blind to dumb

[00:39:31] to whatever to see that their own toxicity was being amplified by their environment

[00:39:39] so last question for our special mother's day episode very very depressing

[00:39:46] mother's day episode um was there anything special about mother's day in the cult like did the

[00:39:54] cult have any traditions I guess or ceremonies or anything like that that was from other's day

[00:40:03] that I mean our our culty church would always do the proverbs 31 and oh the virtuous women

[00:40:11] in that and I remember something they're been like fuck that I mean I didn't know the word

[00:40:15] fuck back then but like because the other moms weren't super nice either so I I just thought it

[00:40:25] was a bunch of like um smoke and mirrors on those days because yeah someone would usually have

[00:40:34] flowers for the mothers and that was their highest calling Kyle as females making them babies

[00:40:43] so there was always that and then there was always proverbs 31 and her children rise up

[00:40:50] and call her blessed her husband also and he praises her praises

[00:40:57] so I think there was something like that at the cult church where we could like rise up and call

[00:41:06] our mothers blessed and say nice things about them huh which that was I mean obviously we didn't

[00:41:15] go to that extent but in normal church normal church there you know father's day mother's

[00:41:21] day there's always you know that's what the sermon is about that day and there's activities around that

[00:41:29] where you say good things about the mothers and or or the fathers on father's day um

[00:41:35] as an adult the the holiday just made me angry because I knew from first-hand experience

[00:41:45] that it's a day when a bunch of really abusive people just get this like I don't know

[00:41:53] fake stamp of approval that they're so good because you know they're moms so they have to

[00:41:59] be right because it's mother's day and all moms are great on mother's day you know

[00:42:07] but yeah I was I was married and gone by the time I had that realization of like wow

[00:42:12] mother's day might be a really bad time for yeah those of us who have abusive mothers

[00:42:24] because not just because we have to go through all the motions of like oh mother's day I love you

[00:42:28] so much you're so wonderful but like society telling these really abusive people and like enabling

[00:42:35] them you know oh you're wonderful because you're mom and you're just

[00:42:39] uh and it's hard because I do subscribe to the belief that people generally are doing their best

[00:42:46] I just had the caveat that some the caveat that some people's best absolutely fucking sucks

[00:42:52] and so was chris doing her best probably but her best was abusive and terrible uh and I mean

[00:42:59] there's a difference between I don't know when I think of like a good mother it's like

[00:43:07] that's not doesn't mean perfect and that doesn't mean they don't have some you know terrible flaw

[00:43:12] there and they're really bad it is one thing or something along those lines but what you're talking

[00:43:18] about is like perpetual abuse you know putting down your children being unhappy about their

[00:43:29] appearance publicly shaming them for yeah so that's not that's not a good parent

[00:43:36] in yeah I mean like I said there's a difference between a good parent and a bad parent and it is

[00:43:41] not perfection that's the the line between the two and I will say the other way the colt has like

[00:43:49] fucked up mother's day for me and I think I'm I'm mostly through this

[00:43:56] um but the colt like my my entire upbringing was your only purpose as a woman is a vessel to make

[00:44:04] babies and I'm not going to talk about this tons so here you go guys like listen up this is the

[00:44:12] one time you're gonna get it it isn't oh I have infertility issues like they literally the

[00:44:19] military fucked up and removed parts you need to have babies so I literally cannot have children

[00:44:27] so don't send hopes and prayers for someday like I literally lack the components to carry a child

[00:44:39] and I would greatly appreciate if folks could just accept that and and let that be true because

[00:44:46] it is uh and and when that happened when I when I had those surgeries in the military that

[00:44:54] irrevocably took away the option to make a biological child I struggled so much with my

[00:45:02] identity because even though I I didn't believe the colt anymore it was still so ingrained in me

[00:45:10] that my worth as a woman was entirely wrapped up in my ability to make children and it took years

[00:45:20] for me to realize that I was still a complete woman even without having the ability to have

[00:45:30] children and like that's how much the colt can get into your head and mess with you

[00:45:37] I was I was 30 years old when that surgery occurred and I'd been out of the colt for like

[00:45:46] I don't know at least eight solid years and out of it and then like stepping away from

[00:45:56] the ideology like untangling the ideology for probably a solid four or five years

[00:46:03] so like half a decade of that work and it was still so ingrained in me that when I no longer had a

[00:46:10] uterus I thought I like literally wasn't a woman because the purpose of a woman is to make babies

[00:46:21] which I don't believe I do not believe that but yeah I can I can really mess you up the way

[00:46:30] certain religions and definitely the colt talk about being a woman being a mother motherhood

[00:46:38] blessed are the mothers you know all that stuff so yeah mother's day isn't my favorite

[00:46:44] just don't I don't like it very much all right well that wraps up our mother's day episode and

[00:46:51] to all the good mothers out there yes we know you're there happy mother's day you we love

[00:46:56] you and we'll be back next monday thanks for listening to another episode of the colt I left behind

[00:47:03] until next time don't join a colt if you enjoyed this podcast please like share and subscribe

[00:47:10] and we will catch you on the next episode