33 - Let's Talk About Sex

[00:00:00] Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Briggs,

[00:00:07] and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the IBLP cult which you

[00:00:13] might know from the Duggar family. And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs. I am

[00:00:17] Amanda's husband and I have not heard most of these stories before so stay

[00:00:22] tuned and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:30] Alright, welcome back to the next episode. We are going to continue the

[00:00:35] theme with another listener-inspired episode. We've got lots of questions and

[00:00:40] comments and messages from listeners. They grew up in similar situations to

[00:00:46] Amanda whether that's in the cult or whether that was...

[00:00:51] Or another cult.

[00:00:52] Or another cult or in just you know sexually abusive environments.

[00:00:58] And again I know we talked about this in the past but we do read all of

[00:01:04] these messages and we're very honored that you share your story. And

[00:01:08] something I've gotten a lot of questions about is healing specifically as an

[00:01:17] adult around the sexual assault. So I've had people ask me, you know, are you

[00:01:24] still triggered by it? Do you still struggle with this in your marriage? Is

[00:01:29] it impacting you? And so we wanted to take some time to talk about this

[00:01:37] because one of the problems with cults is if you grew up in a cult or a

[00:01:42] repressive environment no one's telling you these things. No one's talking to

[00:01:48] you about sex and healing and how to have a healthy sexual relationship and

[00:01:55] what to do in your marriage if you've experienced sexual assault. So I feel like

[00:02:03] the energy I want for this episode is like the big sister I didn't have to

[00:02:11] help me grapple with these things. And I won't say I'm a reigning expert on human

[00:02:19] sexuality and relationships and there are some other people who have podcasts,

[00:02:26] who've written books, who do talks that are far more qualified to speak to that

[00:02:31] but what I can speak to is healing to a point where you no longer have

[00:02:37] triggers and are able to have a healthy sexual relationship as an adult. So in an

[00:02:45] ongoing effort to break down barriers created by cults, this is a little bit,

[00:02:51] Kyle would you say this is a little bit of a deviation from what we normally

[00:02:55] talk about on the podcast? Yeah I mean it's related though.

[00:03:00] It's like adjacent? Yes thank you. I was trying to find the word.

[00:03:03] It was adjacent to the cult just because the sexual abuse and rape and

[00:03:10] harassment is so... And then you put like purity culture which we still need to talk about.

[00:03:15] But I know a lot of our listeners grew up in purity culture and are still grappling with that.

[00:03:21] So since there's so many sex related things with the cult, I think it's relevant.

[00:03:29] Okay well gosh I don't even know where to start because I didn't really go through that portion

[00:03:38] of my life with you. I was married to my ex-husband which I've blocked a lot of those memories

[00:03:49] but I can tell you, I can tell you a couple things that I do remember so we've talked about

[00:03:55] this on the podcast before. Other than being raped did not have sex until marriage because I was

[00:04:03] a good Christian cult person and it was... Well I'll just say this, my ex and I were young when

[00:04:13] we got married. We were 22 and 20 and as far as I know it was both of our first time having

[00:04:21] consensual sex, the consensual being on my part. As far as I know my ex did not have any sexual

[00:04:28] assault and I'm pretty confident in that statement. And I don't know, is anyone good at sex their

[00:04:36] first time? I don't think so. That's a pretty socially accepted thing that the first time is

[00:04:44] always bad. Yeah so that wasn't great and we were on our honeymoon obviously because

[00:04:50] good Christian kids we waited. And the first thing I want to talk about is what it is like to become

[00:04:57] consensually sexually active and still be in some proximity to the person who sexually assaulted

[00:05:05] you. So my ex and I went to another state for our honeymoon and then we came back home and

[00:05:12] we were in the same town as the rapist brother. And what was fine on our honeymoon? Suddenly I was

[00:05:21] curled up in a ball crying and I still don't fully know why but all I could think about

[00:05:31] when we got back to our apartment was that my brother only lived a couple miles away

[00:05:36] and it really messed with my brain. And I was unable to have sex for, I think it was only a couple days

[00:05:50] after we got back but that didn't go over real well. But it was very real for me, it was very real

[00:06:01] that oh man being so geographically close to the person who had sexually violated me while

[00:06:12] trying to have like happy normal consensual marriage sex, it didn't work out real well for

[00:06:19] me initially. Unfortunately for me what I did was I like just pushed myself through that and made

[00:06:28] myself pretend I was okay. We moved to a different city still in the same state, still not super far

[00:06:37] away from my brother but like half an hour away maybe 40 minutes away. A couple months after

[00:06:43] we got married and I did significantly better there. And I will say that probably one of the

[00:06:50] ways my past impacted me because I hadn't gone through treatment for PTSD yet, I hadn't been

[00:06:57] diagnosed yet. Yeah, I'd been in group therapy and then I'd gone to the Christian therapist,

[00:07:04] Rick and Chris that I could go to and we weren't doing sex positive therapy there

[00:07:12] but I'd read a book because no one ever gave me the sex talk so I'd read a book while

[00:07:18] when we were engaged my ex and I read a book together that was very religious.

[00:07:28] I think it told us we should get on our knees by the bed and pray before consummating our marriage.

[00:07:37] I don't think we did that. I was gonna ask. But I don't remember honestly. I was gonna ask if

[00:07:42] the book was helpful but I'm gonna say no. It was helpful in that it provided illustrations and

[00:07:48] like anatomy lessons that I never had and that I was too scared slash righteous to Google.

[00:07:56] So somehow the drawing in the book was more righteous than a drawing on Google.

[00:08:02] But so yeah I'd read the book but one of the ways I would say the sexual assault impacted me when I

[00:08:14] got married and became sexually active was that I was very accustomed to just doing what

[00:08:25] I was expected to do. I'm trying to think of a right way to word that not like the

[00:08:30] the purity culture way to word it but an accurate way to word it because I think the other thing was

[00:08:40] we talked about this in the shiny happy people review how the duggar girls were told like always

[00:08:45] be sexually available to your husband. I had had the same subtle messaging my whole life.

[00:08:52] Again Chris never gave me the sex talk no one ever gave me the sex talk but

[00:08:56] I was dumb and you kind of put two and two together growing up in the IBL peak old

[00:09:04] and you realize like oh okay that's how babies are made and also there are a lot of babies so

[00:09:12] there must be a lot of this going on and that's probably what's expected of me as a woman and

[00:09:19] what I want what I need you know whatever doesn't matter and so it I would say sex was

[00:09:28] incredibly one-sided you can read into that all you want and you will probably be correct

[00:09:35] and I wouldn't say it was a happy or fulfilling part of my previous marriage

[00:09:43] or that time of my life it it wasn't super traumatic it was a little traumatic but it wasn't

[00:09:49] super traumatic and honestly I would say I was more healed because I'd at least

[00:09:55] address the fact that sex was an issue because I'd been through some therapy at that point

[00:10:00] for sexual assault. I think anyone male or female who goes into a relationship where

[00:10:07] you haven't been allowed to even consider the fact that you're a sexual being your whole

[00:10:13] life until you say I do with the altar and the pastor says man and wife you can kiss the bride

[00:10:19] and then suddenly you're supposed to be sex vixens like it just yeah it doesn't work

[00:10:28] that doesn't go real well male or female it doesn't go real well so I would say a lot of

[00:10:35] the struggles I had after I got married was more around like how do I have boundaries

[00:10:41] with this how do I stand up for myself how do I get what I need in this how do I communicate about

[00:10:47] this because no one ever taught me how to talk about sex um but I would say other than that first

[00:10:54] week after the honeymoon when we got back and I was I was freaking out because I was uh pretty

[00:11:01] geographically close to where my brother lived I don't I don't feel like the assault had a

[00:11:10] super profound impact on how I interacted with my ex-husband I mean I'm surprised by that

[00:11:20] surprised by which part that it didn't impact you I feel like I mean I haven't been through

[00:11:27] that so I don't really know my my assumption is like oh you're you've had a really bad

[00:11:34] experience with sex and even in the right circumstances with the right person like it would

[00:11:42] still be triggering for lack of a better word like it would still be scary you're just like okay I've

[00:11:48] only had negative experiences with this act and now I'm like consensually participating in this

[00:11:58] it would still be scary to some extent I think it was scary to some extent and and I think that after

[00:12:07] I started PTSD treatment there were times when I was a mess um crying curled up in a ball but I

[00:12:16] don't think we were having sex like the same day I had therapy my ex was an asshole about

[00:12:26] some things but I don't I don't think he was an asshole about that that I recall and I know that

[00:12:32] there were there were random moments where something would trigger me

[00:12:41] there were there were random moments when stuff would trigger me but it wasn't a consistent

[00:12:46] problem that I recall hmm I don't recall it being a consistent problem um there were some

[00:12:55] things that my brother did to me like specific things that were a little more traumatic and took

[00:13:03] more therapy eventually or just time with me thinking about it or talking to a trusted girlfriend

[00:13:11] or something to sort of process it but the other the other thing because you said oh that surprises

[00:13:19] me and what immediately popped into mind for me was well I'm a rule follower and the rule said no sex

[00:13:26] before marriage but in marriage you can have sex so it was like okay red is stop you're not married

[00:13:34] don't green is go you're married now you can so I think because the way I'm wired being such a

[00:13:43] lawful good rule follower it kind of decomplicated it a little bit for me that's fascinating

[00:13:53] and correct me if I'm wrong here but it sounds like the because it was so in

[00:13:59] like heavily instilled in you that like no sex before marriage but afterwards

[00:14:04] it's fair game like go for it like that was stronger than the absolutely horrible negative

[00:14:14] experiences that you had with yeah prior to it yeah and keep in mind I wasn't having a great time

[00:14:22] yeah I wasn't having a great time so I think a lot of my work um and frankly I don't think this

[00:14:32] even happened until after my divorce was around checking back into my own body and allowing myself

[00:14:41] to be a sexual being we're all sexual beings and allowing myself to accept that and and try to

[00:14:49] begin normalizing it for myself so I would say I had less trauma work and more

[00:14:56] somatic checking back into my own being work yeah but yes I would I would say the purity culture

[00:15:05] was so ingrained in me that the the rules the rule change of okay now you're married it's all fair

[00:15:13] game um was was a pretty profound thing for me yeah and I wonder like and obviously you work in

[00:15:23] you work in this space now I wonder how different that is for somebody that didn't come

[00:15:30] that was sexually assaulted or raped or whatever but they weren't in a strict religious environment if

[00:15:38] okay so this this is what I find fascinating so yes I have had these conversations with hundreds

[00:15:45] of people over the years doing the work I do and it's it's not as clear-cut as that so you'll

[00:15:51] have um let's let's make the focus female because the people who have told me their stories are primarily

[00:15:57] female over the years and something that I think is really interesting is young women who are who

[00:16:04] were sexually assaulted who grew up in really like strict purity culture Christian Catholic

[00:16:13] standards yes some of them reacted like me and completely shut down sexually and had no interest

[00:16:18] in it and then others had what is also a very normal response to sexual assault which is like okay

[00:16:24] I'm good for a sex and and that's they begin to identify with like this hyper sexualized version

[00:16:33] of themselves and I saw I see that in my work even in people who grow up in really repressive

[00:16:40] purity culture environment so it's not really that's the interesting thing about it's not

[00:16:44] really limited you can grow up in a repressive environment and either be like nope never having

[00:16:48] sex ever see you buy or like yep that's all I'm good for so I guess I might as well or

[00:16:54] you know my purity was taken so what does it even matter anymore and you see the same thing

[00:17:00] in people who don't grow up in restrictive environments they might be like nope never

[00:17:04] having sex again or they might be like well what's the what's the fucking point you know

[00:17:09] it's already all ruined anyways so I hope that that's comforting if you have lived through sexual

[00:17:15] assault to know like whichever way you reacted or you know there's more than just those two but

[00:17:21] there are myriad ways survivors react and there's a lot of commonality no matter

[00:17:27] how you grow up and if you were in a really religious home there's still a ton of overlap

[00:17:34] in how survivors respond so so there's real strong community you you can absolutely find people

[00:17:40] who reacted however it is you reacted they're out there and um you can find support and a

[00:17:48] network of people who understand what you've been through I guess another part of that is

[00:17:55] how much did the checking out play a role in in that is that do you think that's

[00:18:01] a reason why you were able to like have sex like consensual sex because you were you were checking

[00:18:09] out of your body that was that a factor at all um I think I could have sex because

[00:18:17] at least at the beginning I really loved I really loved my ex-husband and I wanted to have

[00:18:27] a complete and robust life with him and I was bound and determined that what happened to me as

[00:18:34] a child was not going to dictate how I lived as an as an adult and it was more than just sex it was

[00:18:39] I was I was determined that I would heal I was determined that I would be okay someday I was

[00:18:45] determined that I was gonna get to the bottom of how the sexual assault had impacted my life

[00:18:51] and I was gonna heal it as far as far as it went I was gonna I was gonna go heal it and so I think

[00:18:57] it was kind of that combination of you know I loved him and I wanted to have a complete relationship

[00:19:02] with him and I didn't want what I went through to impact my life in my marriage and in adulthood

[00:19:12] and in my sexual relationship with my ex so I'm not saying there weren't bumps along the way

[00:19:19] but I had again I think I've talked about you know my unkillable belief system about a couple

[00:19:25] different things but I had an unkillable belief that I could I could have a healthy sexual relationship

[00:19:33] with my significant other and that I could get to a point where acknowledging my own sexuality

[00:19:40] was not traumatic and I would say honestly the harder work was after after my divorce and realizing

[00:19:50] I shared about this in the divorce episode you know how unsafe I felt in that marriage and how

[00:19:55] hurt I was in that marriage and how that marriage and in the sexual elements that developed were

[00:20:01] so damaging to me I did a lot of work a lot of work after the divorce to

[00:20:11] to heal the trauma like honestly my ex making me watch porn was more traumatic to my sex life

[00:20:18] with him than the sexual assault ever was my ex dragging me to strip clubs was more traumatic

[00:20:25] to my sex life with him than the sexual assault ever was so it that that was my journey everyone's

[00:20:32] journey is going to be different but for me the really hard work was the somatic work that

[00:20:42] happened later I mean the theme in the last especially in the last couple episodes is just

[00:20:47] kind of it's really a kind of a mind over matter thing that if you if you want to have a good sex

[00:20:58] life or you want to work through something or you want it to be whatever it is if you want

[00:21:03] it to be better like that can kind of trump a lot of stuff or at least help you get through it

[00:21:11] well I agree and I disagree because I think anytime we use the phrase mind of mind over

[00:21:18] matter with a trauma survivor that's I would call it pretty callous I would never ever ever ever

[00:21:24] ever say mind over matter to a trauma survivor I would I would instead say oh let's let's see

[00:21:33] how would I how would I phrase that I would say what is the life you want yeah it's okay to not

[00:21:41] be there right now and and I I'm not trying to attack you in this Kyle I'm trying to make sure

[00:21:48] that we frame it well because how we frame stuff really does impact perception and how people

[00:21:56] are able to receive messaging and stuff so it's important so I would say yeah maybe

[00:22:01] visualize the life you want and maybe sex is so traumatic that the life you want isn't even

[00:22:09] having good sex maybe the life you want is just not being so fucking afraid of the concept of sex

[00:22:15] or or not hating the fact that humans are sexual beings like you can start small you can start

[00:22:21] real small for me the first step was the life I wanted was being able to live fully present

[00:22:29] in my body and in the moment and so yeah it's totally fine to start small

[00:22:36] and then maybe from there you work on that you work on healing that you make progress

[00:22:42] and you get to a good spot and then maybe the next step is I would love to feel safe

[00:22:50] every time I think about having sex with my significant other and then you just you keep

[00:22:56] stepping it from there and one thing I would do differently knowing what I know now is I never

[00:23:05] ever ever would have forced myself to have sex with my ex I never would have just you know

[00:23:10] gridded my teething and gotten through it I would have had a lot more boundaries I wish I would

[00:23:20] at the time had the knowledge encouraged to to say what I wanted and what I needed and those things

[00:23:30] so I think if you are a sexual assault survivor and you are in a relationship where you are having

[00:23:39] consensual sex and you're struggling and you're triggered and you're traumatized

[00:23:44] you might need to stop for a while you might need to stop and you might need to do therapeutic work

[00:23:51] to just learn how to check in with yourself and be okay with being a sexual being and then

[00:23:58] like your partner your partner who loves you might need to do some work to learn how to be a more

[00:24:05] compassionate lover a more a more compassionate partner it doesn't all just have to be on you

[00:24:12] I would say if you're getting real fucking triggered by sex look at the whole picture is it just you

[00:24:19] is it just your trauma or are you in a relationship with someone who's inconsiderate or isn't

[00:24:29] respecting your boundaries or um isn't patient with what you can and can't handle based on where

[00:24:38] you are in your healing journey bottom line the whole problem might not be you yeah I mean it takes

[00:24:45] two to tango and and part of that is you need that other person to also be there with you

[00:24:53] wherever it is you're at so that you can keep healing and moving forward yeah absolutely and

[00:25:00] then if if you have a partner who's just an an angel and they're patient and they're not causing

[00:25:07] you any harm you like really do assess it and you're like nope this is all me okay you know what

[00:25:13] you were sexually traumatized it's okay to have some carryover into a consensual adult relationship

[00:25:21] you are normal you are not weird you are not a failure you're not bad you're someone who is

[00:25:28] deeply hurt because sex sex is so gosh I I'm afraid to say what I want to say

[00:25:36] because I don't want it to sound like purity culture but so I'm gonna say it anyways and then

[00:25:40] I'll explain what I mean I I believe sex is sacred I think I think it's a beautiful thing I think

[00:25:47] it's a um it's a really incredible way to connect and I think it needs to be treated with respect

[00:25:58] now that doesn't mean that I think you better only ever have sex with one person you better

[00:26:04] be married to them in the lights better be out and it better be missionary like that is not what I'm

[00:26:09] saying at all okay being very clear on this um but but I think that the reason sexual assault

[00:26:17] hurts so much is because it is such a sacred part of being a human we are sexual beings and

[00:26:25] we should have total agency over that aspect of who we are so all that to say you're not weird

[00:26:35] you're not bad if if you're struggling with even consensual sex post sexual assault so again

[00:26:44] I am a one-string banjo I really suggest therapy and specifically maybe consider working with someone

[00:26:52] who specializes in uh somatic healing somatic work um rosin therapy was really effective for me not

[00:27:01] just not even just sexually but just as a person checking back into my body and not

[00:27:09] numbing out you know the fact that I'm a person I'm in a body um yeah there

[00:27:16] rosin therapy was super effective I love it but it's hard to find actual rosin certified

[00:27:27] practitioners so you can you can look up um I think it's called the rosin institute I think

[00:27:33] they're in California I forget but you can find their website and try to find a practitioner

[00:27:38] near you I ended up traveling I traveled an hour and a half one way to a practitioner and it

[00:27:45] was it was worth the time it was worth the money um because again not even just as a sexual being but

[00:27:53] as as a person being able to be fully present in my body is something that rosin therapy helped me

[00:28:00] with um and it actually helped me address a bunch of pain and you know all this other stuff so

[00:28:05] that so there are a lot of benefits beyond human sexuality to learning how to find safety

[00:28:13] checking back into your own body so I would say maybe consider that I would say

[00:28:21] consider having some some really honest conversations with your partner if they are doing things that

[00:28:28] are triggering for you if they have habits if you've talked to them about this stuff and

[00:28:33] and gosh they're still doing it or they're still asking you to do it there might be

[00:28:38] whole quadrants of sexual expression that just need to be off limits for a while while you heal

[00:28:44] and while you figure stuff out and that is okay and you are allowed to have that boundary

[00:28:50] I wish someone had been there to say that to me when I was 22 so there's like there's a couple

[00:28:57] things you touched on that I want to circle back to a little bit um one there's been

[00:29:04] a recurring theme with distance from the cult or oh yeah just like

[00:29:12] harmful people like the physical distance seems to be it's a game changer and physical

[00:29:19] and emotional distance yeah and then I guess the second kind of related question to that is

[00:29:26] is in the cult and specifically as a female in the cult do you think dissociating from your body

[00:29:34] is that a normal part of of being a female in the cult or yes because your body is bad

[00:29:42] your body is a trap your body is a lure for men um your body betrays you your body is the

[00:29:49] reason you got sexually assaulted because again hyper religious environments have an improper

[00:29:54] understanding of what causes sexual assault they're always going to say it's sex and lust

[00:29:57] that's just absolute bullshit sexual assault is caused by malicious power and control dynamics

[00:30:06] so your body is not the problem your body was never the problem your body is good that's

[00:30:13] another thing I wish someone had told me a really really really long time ago your body is good

[00:30:20] what happened to you is not your body's fault

[00:30:25] if you remember nothing else from this episode remember that your body is good

[00:30:29] and it was not your body's fault so yeah I to answer your question I do think that

[00:30:34] checking out of your body even without sexual assault is very common for particularly women

[00:30:40] who grew up in colton uh repressive environments because you're taught from a young age that

[00:30:46] your body's your body's bad yeah until you get married then you have to be a sex vixen or you know

[00:30:56] whatever you want to call it gotta be available all the time and you gotta be available so you gotta

[00:31:01] go from being never available and don't even like even remotely you know don't even know your

[00:31:06] own anatomy to don't know your anatomy and don't blink at a man because it may be too in you

[00:31:12] know insinuating you want sex um to going to the complete opposite into the spectrum and just

[00:31:19] being like all right now everything's now your whole purpose is to be available for him sexually

[00:31:28] I don't see a world in which that ever ends well I would love to flip that script

[00:31:34] Kyle it is your entire job to be available for me sexually constantly I mean you kind of already

[00:31:41] are I don't I don't know how that would work if as a society we were like women have all the sexual

[00:31:52] power well I think in some circles depending on your uh well yeah I guess in non-col men

[00:32:00] men probably would say women have all the sexual power I've just been in fetish ways there's

[00:32:06] circles in which that is normal well there is that too but getting back to the the physical

[00:32:13] distance thing and I know this is kind of a little off topic but why do you think it's so

[00:32:20] like powerful that getting away from the cult was so helpful for you to like kind of

[00:32:26] disentangle all that and process it and then like being close to the cult or where the

[00:32:34] person that was sexually assaulting you had such a profound impact I think it's access in a lot of ways

[00:32:41] at the time I was I was still required by the family to act like everything was fine and he was

[00:32:46] my brother and everything is great so I mean there's fear that he'd stop by our place

[00:32:54] that I'd see him at the grocery store so when you when you have physical distance

[00:33:01] statistically it cuts down the possibility that you're going to open your front door and see that

[00:33:07] person standing there or you know find yourself in line with them at the grocery store so I think

[00:33:14] that uh physical distance just removes a lot of variables and unknowns I stopped allowing my

[00:33:23] family to have my address after I moved away it just it just felt safer I knew I wasn't going to

[00:33:31] open my door and see them there so yeah I know that that's not an option for everyone just like

[00:33:38] pick up and move across the country to get away from harmful people in your life but

[00:33:44] if that is an option that you have I found it to be a very powerful factor in my healing

[00:33:54] it's sad that that's it seems like that's such a good way to take a step in the right direction

[00:34:00] it's also such a hard thing to do yeah and I mean it's another thing where it's like incumbent upon

[00:34:06] the victim to move themselves across the country to get away from harm which again you know so

[00:34:12] frustrating yeah but yeah for me that that was that was powerful it really was and going back

[00:34:22] to another thing you said earlier um and specifically some of the listeners have mentioned this before

[00:34:29] of around triggers but I also know that you've kind of reframed that or one of your therapists

[00:34:37] reframe that for you into oh remnants remnants yeah okay so a trigger is going to be like

[00:34:45] a full on trauma like it's a trauma situation um and after I went through intensive therapy for PTSD

[00:34:57] and I no longer met the criteria from PTSD and I had made what is considered a full recovery my

[00:35:05] really amazing psychologist at the time told me like all right hey you're you're still gonna

[00:35:10] have stuff that pops up from time to time and it's it's gonna trouble you it's I don't

[00:35:15] trigger wasn't a word that was being used at that time because again this was a very long time ago

[00:35:20] but um in today's lingo what he said was things will trigger you and he told me don't freak out

[00:35:28] it doesn't mean you're regressing doesn't mean the trauma is all coming back

[00:35:31] that's a normal part of being a person who's lived through some hard stuff

[00:35:35] and they'll become fewer with time and they'll become less intense with time

[00:35:40] and I think the fact that he set me up for success with that because like you said he framed it so well

[00:35:45] for me I and he called them remnants I have had remnants but just like he said they have become

[00:35:56] fewer and fewer and fewer with time and they're nowhere near the intensity level that they used

[00:36:02] to be you know a remnant used to be like okay this is a big bad moment okay and it maybe it lasted a

[00:36:11] couple hours maybe it lasted a day maybe I was like kind of dysregulated for a couple days these

[00:36:16] days it's like if something triggers me it's a blip I mean you've seen that happen how long

[00:36:23] would you say it lasts like a couple minutes yeah usually and you're you're able to vocalize it

[00:36:30] like when I could see it on your face but you can also vocalize and you're just like

[00:36:34] I'm having a bad memory and it's not even sex like that I mean it'll happen if I see a movie or

[00:36:43] or just like sometimes um I'll smell something that reminds me of I've heard that's like the

[00:36:49] yeah olfactory is a real big one so I will have different moments throughout my life

[00:36:55] or something will you know just take me back to a moment in my childhood and at this point

[00:37:02] I'm I'm so confident that it's it's gonna end soon and I'll be back to normal that

[00:37:08] it's it's not a big disruption to my life and you know I used to have remnants

[00:37:15] pretty I say like pretty frequently like multiple a month or something and now I would say it's like

[00:37:23] like annually a couple times a year maybe but it doesn't shut down my day or my life I'm able to

[00:37:32] you know continue with whatever I was doing which again is why it's so important to get

[00:37:38] appropriate care and support because it is possible to reach a place where you're not

[00:37:46] constantly retraumatized and and to offer some hope for folks who are struggling like

[00:37:51] I would say what we have like a 12 out of 10 sex life

[00:37:55] yes I would rate it that way yeah like you can get to a place where you have an absolutely

[00:38:03] fantastic sex life yeah I'm I'm very very happy with that category of my life and

[00:38:12] so again like the big sister I wish I had although I don't know if I'd want my sister

[00:38:19] to talk to me about sex how about the friend the friend I wish I had when I was younger

[00:38:26] I do want to tell you it is possible to get to a place where you're healed enough that

[00:38:33] that your consensual sex life is is a really happy thriving part of who you are

[00:38:42] one of the hard parts of of doing this podcast is is just the heartbreaking messages that

[00:38:48] some people send us but also one of the best parts of it is that people send these messages of like

[00:38:57] how much hearing your story helps them just to have someone else say it out loud

[00:39:05] which you've mentioned before like when you got to college you're like oh like someone's

[00:39:09] saying this so it's also like one of the best parts and so I'm sure I speak for all of those

[00:39:18] listeners when I say like thanks for being open and sharing these things even though it's it's I'm sure

[00:39:24] hard but hopefully that was helpful to to those listeners that have went through those things

[00:39:32] or grew up in the cult and have those remnants or or still are battling some of those memories

[00:39:42] and scared of whatever it is just because of their you know the previous experiences so yeah thanks

[00:39:51] for being open and honest about that and you know sex is a little bit of a taboo subject even

[00:39:57] outside of the cult so hopefully everybody got something out of that and know that there's

[00:40:04] you know there's light at the end of the tunnel there and and it's achievable

[00:40:08] and I'll say you know one other one other thing um I've heard a lot not just from listeners but in

[00:40:16] and a lot of years of interacting with survivors is folks who say like I hate that my trauma

[00:40:25] is impacting my partner because they didn't hurt me this is in their fault

[00:40:32] and I feel so bad about it and I'll go back to take take a really good honest look at you know

[00:40:40] are you really the only problem are you being triggered because the other person isn't being

[00:40:47] patient or kind enough for respecting your boundaries and if the answer to that is nope

[00:40:52] there'd be an awesome then I would encourage you to lean into the love that's there

[00:40:58] you know that that person is with you for a reason they love you for a reason and

[00:41:06] especially if it's a marriage partner we didn't sign up for perfect all the time

[00:41:15] we signed up to learn and grow and if if you and your partner can communicate about this if

[00:41:24] you can be honest like put it on the table between you like yep this is a part of our marriage that's

[00:41:29] struggling it's part of our relationships that's struggling this is not where we want it to be

[00:41:35] I feel like I'm hurting you because of my trauma that isn't your fault what I've found is that the

[00:41:42] more you can name it the more you can talk about it the more you can make it something

[00:41:47] you're working on together the faster you're probably going to heal and the well let me say it

[00:41:54] this way it's going to be real real real hard to heal if you're like okay I got to do this and I

[00:41:59] got to do this fast because I don't want to hurt my partner and I really love my partner my partner

[00:42:02] is a great person and this isn't their fault and I need to heal this yesterday like that's so

[00:42:08] much stress and there is so much pressure and that's probably not going to help you get where

[00:42:14] you want to be so if you guys can together acknowledge the issue fully and maybe have some

[00:42:22] grief like grieve it together too because because I know a lot of a lot of people who've shared their

[00:42:29] story with me they do have some intense grief around like I know this is supposed to be good

[00:42:34] and I'm ruining it for the other person acknowledge that together and then maybe maybe

[00:42:39] your partner needs some support maybe there's some therapeutic work they can do so that they have

[00:42:46] you know that confidentiality with a trusted ally a trusted resource who can help them love you well

[00:42:56] through the healing and can help them support you and can be a place where they can vent

[00:43:04] they can talk about you know maybe and this might hurt a little but maybe the truth that it is really

[00:43:10] it is really hard you know to not have the sex life they want at that time but if you guys

[00:43:16] can name it together if you can seek individual support and and bring the healing back together

[00:43:24] in in a very peaceful calm measured way again stress is not going to help freaking out about this

[00:43:35] and feeling bad about it is not going to help you heal so yeah I would say definitely consider

[00:43:41] getting individual support it's probably a really a really good idea if if you're still

[00:43:50] going through long-term healing for sexual assault you know the the sexual dysfunction or

[00:43:57] the sexual issues in your relationship aren't just you know going to disappear overnight you're

[00:44:01] not going to magically heal and be fine tomorrow so have a plan have an honest open

[00:44:07] conversation around planning all right what are we going to do how are we going to connect how

[00:44:11] are we going to find intimacy through this long road of healing but but but always remember that

[00:44:20] healing is possible and you can get to a place where you are comfortable in your own body and

[00:44:25] you're comfortable in your own sexuality and you enjoy your sexual relationship with your partner

[00:44:32] well thanks for running through all of that I know we're in a weird spot here this is

[00:44:38] all cult adjacent and unfortunately you know the amount of messages we've received from listeners

[00:44:46] like there are a lot of people dealing with this type of stuff so I think it's still relevant to

[00:44:50] talk to and hopefully help people you know the people that are in your position or similar

[00:44:57] positions or come from those backgrounds and and hopefully that's still helpful useful information

[00:45:02] for you know people like me that didn't come from those backgrounds and and didn't have those

[00:45:07] experiences but maybe you're with somebody like Amanda and now now you know so yeah I hope that was

[00:45:14] a helpful episode for anybody listening and we'll be back next Monday thanks for listening to another

[00:45:22] episode of the cult I left behind until next time don't join a cult if you enjoyed this podcast

[00:45:29] please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode