32 - But Did You Cry Out?

[00:00:00] Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Briggs and

[00:00:08] I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the IBLP cold which you might know from

[00:00:14] the Dagger family. And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs. I'm Amanda's husband and I have

[00:00:19] not heard most of these stories before so stay tuned and we'll all get traumatized together.

[00:00:30] All right, welcome back to the next episode. We have had quite an uptick and new listeners so

[00:00:36] for all of you new folks, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind. Welcome everyone, we're glad you're here.

[00:00:42] So we are in April as of recording this and releasing it. And what is April, Amanda?

[00:00:51] April is sexual assault awareness month every year. Yep. And I know that's

[00:00:58] very near and dear to you, especially with what you do professionally. Yes. So do you want to

[00:01:04] give us a little? I am really, really if this is one presentation this month. Well, I guess every

[00:01:10] episode we do this month, I am not rehearsing for so that's kind of a nice break from the schedule.

[00:01:19] Well, yeah, so April is sexual assault awareness month and we wanted to make sure that we have at

[00:01:26] least one episode this month that addresses sexual assault because it is unfortunately really

[00:01:33] prevalent in cults and oppressive environments. So we are going to be talking about how the IBLP

[00:01:42] cult addressed and defined sexual assault and responsibility and culpability and all those

[00:01:49] nasty things. And I am trying to be cheerful for this episode researching this pissed me off.

[00:01:58] I'm not cheerful, I'm very angry, very angry right now. So I guess we can channel it into

[00:02:07] just tearing Bill Gother down. Sure. He deserves it.

[00:02:13] But like this is infuriating shit. I was so happy earlier today. We were having a good night.

[00:02:20] We were outside. Weather was beautiful. Drinking a non-alcoholic beer, I have switched to wine.

[00:02:28] I now have a very small glass of red wine because I still have to be conscious of alcohol and

[00:02:34] medication. But fuck this shit. I'm so angry, I almost didn't even want to record but we have to

[00:02:42] because yeah. That is the unfortunate downside of talking about it.

[00:02:47] Just guessing my trauma every week on a podcast definitely much harder for you than me.

[00:02:54] Yeah, you were all happy and then you came in here and I think you saw my face and now neither of us

[00:02:58] was very happy. I mean, yeah, I expect it's going to be hard topics and hard things for you

[00:03:07] to revisit. And I hope everybody that is listening understands that we try to space out these

[00:03:13] harder topics or the more traumatic topics or the ones that are at least harder for you to discuss

[00:03:20] because it's just so emotionally draining. And I think it's good for all the listeners too

[00:03:25] to have a little break from the heavier eating topics. And I don't want to just like slam in a whole

[00:03:31] bunch of horrible stories that are depressing and sad. Well, our tagline is let's all get traumatized

[00:03:37] together. So I guess this is on brand for us. It is. This is on brand. Why did we come up with this

[00:03:42] brand Kyle? There's no way around it, I guess. I guess this is what happens when you grow

[00:03:50] in Nicole, then you decide to talk about it. Yep, we're keeping it real. Yeah, good, bad and the ugly.

[00:03:58] Yeah, I'm angry. Okay. So what we're going to talk about tonight is

[00:04:06] the IBLP cult concept of crying out. And I'm procrastinating just a little bit more because I realized

[00:04:13] we always say tonight because we're always recording these after our day jobs. So it's always night

[00:04:19] when we're doing this for the most part. I think a couple weekend of mornings we recorded.

[00:04:25] But yeah, if you are if you ever wondered why we're always saying what do you have for us tonight

[00:04:29] Amanda? And oh man tonight, we blah, blah, blah. It's yeah, we're recording this after work.

[00:04:36] All right, I'm done procrastinating.

[00:04:38] So the love crying out makes a violent and disgusting appearance in the ATI wisdom booklet number 36.

[00:04:50] I still can't believe there's so many wisdom booklets. Uh-huh. Yeah, this was my childhood.

[00:04:56] Horrible black and white photo. See, sorry listeners, you can't see this but Kyle, see this dude

[00:05:01] getting stabbed. Yeah, that was my childhood looking this this was school. Okay, it's a little

[00:05:08] illustrating something from the Bible. But this is the law section, Kyle of wisdom booklet 36.

[00:05:16] Because remember the wonderful, wonderful wisdom booklets were preparing you for law and medicine.

[00:05:24] Right. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah, not really, but yes.

[00:05:30] So it's the crime of this, the crime of that, the crime of this, the crime of that. And then we have

[00:05:34] the crime of rape. Okay, I'm going to try to summarize most of this. But certain things must be read.

[00:05:42] Okay, so they pull the legal definition of rape which is from 1927 and was actually correct at the time

[00:05:51] and they say the legal definition of rape is the unlawful carnal knowledge of a female

[00:05:56] by force and against her will. Okay, very religious in saying the carnal knowledge.

[00:06:03] Carnal knowledge. But this was this was you know, Department of Justice terminology until 2012.

[00:06:11] So that's what was in the wisdom booklet. At first I thought this was some fucked up shit

[00:06:15] the bill gothered put in here. Mm hmm. But no, this this was the law of our great nation.

[00:06:20] Okay. Until 2012 and you'll notice that it the way it's defined, it specifically says female.

[00:06:29] So you know, no one else can get raped Kyle. You can't get raped. Yeah, until until 2012.

[00:06:36] Then suddenly you could I'm a little surprised. I was shocked that it took till 2012. Yeah,

[00:06:42] that's a long time. Like I know just things around sexual assault in those types of crimes are

[00:06:49] you know, the laws are still catching up but that's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. Do you want to know

[00:06:54] the current DOJ definition of rape? Okay. We grew up a bit as a country and now and guys this is

[00:07:01] this is a little graphic but again, you can find this on the Department of Justice's website. This is

[00:07:07] how our nation defines rape. The penetration no matter how slight of the vagina or anus with

[00:07:14] anybody part or object or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person without consent

[00:07:23] of the victim. It's a lot more graphic and but it it's not just women anymore.

[00:07:29] The females are not the only people who can be raped anymore so that's a huge step forward

[00:07:35] for justice. Maybe I should share my playlist that I used to survive all of this shit

[00:07:43] with our listeners. I have a whole playlist. I have so well, all right, let's be honest,

[00:07:47] I have so many different playlists but I specifically have playlists that I use when I was going

[00:07:55] through therapy to recover from sexual assaults and then I have my I've lost all hope in the

[00:08:00] universe. I need to have some faith restored playlist. I have the playlist from when I reported

[00:08:08] maybe April would be a good month to share some of those. Sure, sounds a good idea

[00:08:14] because guess what I was listening to while prepping for this episode to try to combat the anger.

[00:08:19] My there's some hope in the world playlist. Okay, let's proceed. The next portion

[00:08:26] of wisdom booklet 36 in regards to the crime of rape and you're going to hear my papers in

[00:08:32] the background folks. I have a lot of pages of notes for this episode again. All right, well

[00:08:39] ATI in a shocking turn of events decides to quote the Bible, be old testament to be exact

[00:08:47] and says that if a single man entices or forces an unmarried woman to have a physical relationship

[00:08:57] then this is where it starts quoting Exodus. He shall surely endow her to be his wife.

[00:09:03] If her father utterly refuses to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the

[00:09:08] dowry of virgins. Exodus 22 16 through 17 see also Deuteronomy 22 28 through 29. So women are in

[00:09:17] fact property that can be you know raped and then bought and sold by men because that's fine.

[00:09:25] I also thought it was interesting that it specified if a single man or I think they use it.

[00:09:30] Oh yeah, but like no the if you're married there's different rules. The wisdom booklet says

[00:09:35] if a single man. I don't know if that's in the Bible. I'm not going to go look Exodus pisses me off.

[00:09:41] And then and then Bill you know in his divine wisdom introduces what he calls the law of crying out.

[00:09:51] And this is where shit really hits the fan. Okay, I'm going to read this. This is a direct

[00:09:59] quote from wisdom booklet 36 law resource F as in Fox trot. God has established some very strict

[00:10:09] guidelines of responsibility for a woman who is attacked. She is to cry out for help.

[00:10:17] The victim who fails to do this is equally guilty with the attacker. That's some crazy bullshit.

[00:10:26] Like you have to cry out otherwise you're guilty of what? Oh yeah,

[00:10:31] what are you guilty of? You're equally guilty with the attacker for the assault. It is equally your

[00:10:37] fault that you got assaulted. I just don't even know like. Slight pause, I need more wine.

[00:10:46] I'm sure we'll get to this but keep in mind that all of this material was presented to me

[00:10:52] as part of my education while being sexually assaulted on a daily basis.

[00:10:58] How did that? Oh that was horrible. Yeah, I was certain it was all my fault and I was going to help.

[00:11:05] So is that how like when did you at what age roughly were you exposed to this?

[00:11:12] Before I was 10. So I'm sure that was very confusing.

[00:11:17] Did you question it or did you like when you read that or you're like, this is wrong.

[00:11:22] Well no. And you know how I've said a bunch of times in this podcast I called bullshit on iBL PNATI.

[00:11:31] I didn't on this because it fit the narrative. I told myself which is the narrative most sexual assault

[00:11:37] survivors tell themselves until they start getting help and healing which is it was my fault.

[00:11:42] I should have been able to defend myself. I should have been able to fight this off.

[00:11:45] My body betrayed me. I let this happen somehow. And if you're groomed or if you know the perpetrator

[00:11:52] or if the perpetrator has ongoing access to you to control the narrative of what they've done to

[00:12:00] you, then they're going to be in most cases, skillful and cunning enough to manipulate you into

[00:12:05] believing that what happened to you was also your fault or you were somehow complicit or wanted it

[00:12:09] to happen or some other fucked up why like that. So because my brother had already started this

[00:12:18] narrative of I was complicit with him and because my parents did nothing to counteract that messaging

[00:12:29] when they found out. Of course, I thought it was all my fault. So this was just more evidence

[00:12:36] right that it was all my fault. So by the time this rolled around you were already kind of

[00:12:41] brainwashed into believing this even though you hadn't specifically read it in the book. Yeah.

[00:12:48] So yeah, I can imagine that being now it's like on paper in your curriculum kind of reinforcing. That's

[00:12:56] that's horrible. And then they quote Deuteronomy about how

[00:13:05] let's see if a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, married to

[00:13:10] and husband because again, King James Version and Weird Grimmer, then they shall both of them die.

[00:13:17] And ye ye Kyle ye shall stone them with stones that they die the damsel because she cried not.

[00:13:26] So in addition to in addition to believing I was equally guilty as my brother,

[00:13:33] I was supposed to be stoned to death. Just it's so crazy. I get just I'm a speechless for it,

[00:13:45] which is bad when you're trying to be on a podcast but like I don't it's so crazy.

[00:13:49] I know he's over there just shaking his head while I read everyone.

[00:13:52] I just it's it's such a stretch and it's so I don't know dumb founding that that's

[00:14:06] where they went with this and decided they were going to make a law out of it and put it in their

[00:14:10] curriculum and show this to children. And then there's a picture of people being stoned to death

[00:14:17] just to visually reinforce that for young children because that's important for them to see.

[00:14:29] I mean, I guess devil's advocate for a second like is careful.

[00:14:38] Yeah, I'm trying to understand it and I just don't and I'm trying to understand.

[00:14:42] Because dumb. Well, yeah, and like I try to understand like why would they even write that is

[00:14:49] there's not a there's not a good reason that's for sure.

[00:14:53] You know sometimes I wonder if Bill was trying like Bill obviously knew what he was doing was wrong.

[00:14:59] So I think it's in his messaging he's trying to make as many people complicit as possible.

[00:15:06] That I mean, that makes sense because oh he assaulted this this young girl but she didn't cry out.

[00:15:12] So she's just as guilty as he is. Oh and I should probably stoner to death.

[00:15:16] So is she going to speak up then? No between that and the Matthew 18 thing where you can only

[00:15:22] give a good report. He's basically ensuring because remember he's he's got victims before his

[00:15:30] other victims are even born that was on the timeline in episode three gothard girls.

[00:15:36] So he's literally raising up. He's grooming his next generation of victims through the

[00:15:42] curriculum. I mean, I've said that before like a lot of the stuff a lot of the curriculum

[00:15:49] it's what it feels like he's doing is just like this is my twisted idea. Yeah, he's grooming

[00:15:54] and he's just like okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it into the curriculum or the the culture within

[00:16:01] the cult and just create these loopholes where yeah, I mean that's some dedication. I'm gonna rate 52

[00:16:09] wisdom booklets of grooming material. I guess is that one of those things versus like once you're in

[00:16:16] it like you just have to keep perpetuating your own mind. Like it just gives worse and worse and

[00:16:23] but the only option is to keep going forward. I don't know. Not that it's right. No, it's not right.

[00:16:30] Should I keep going? Okay, well then then there's a whole segment on ways that one who is being

[00:16:38] attacked can cry out for help. Oh. So now he's gonna tell you how to cry out. This should be good.

[00:16:47] Mm-hmm. Five ways. One is call for help and then then the wisdom booklet says that

[00:17:01] I'll let me summarize here it basically says that the new best practice is for women to

[00:17:11] cooperate instead of fighting off the attacker which I don't I don't really know why they worded it that way

[00:17:22] because it's not a best practice. It is an actual trauma response that your body naturally comes up with.

[00:17:31] Okay, so we all know fighter flight and then the lesser well known ones are freeze and fawn.

[00:17:40] So all four of them are absolutely legitimate and in a crisis your subconscious, your body

[00:17:47] is going to react in the way it perceives will keep you safest. Your subconscious is processing so much

[00:17:58] data that your conscious brain can't even you know handle. So your gut instinct in one of those

[00:18:07] crisis moments is probably the safest best thing in some cases. Yeah, it's going to be fight. It's

[00:18:13] in some cases you are going to freeze in some cases and I mean you can see that in nature that is

[00:18:20] a built-in response that some animals have you know they freeze up. They play dead and it apparently

[00:18:28] is effective you know we don't we don't blame animals for having that effective response by humans

[00:18:34] you know how dare you. And then flight if you can run if you can get away your body is going to tell

[00:18:43] you try to run try to get out of there and if none of those things work and staying and trying

[00:18:49] to play Kate bargain reason with the attacker is the safest thing to do that's probably what you're

[00:18:56] going to do. So I guess what I'm saying is ignore this you know go burn wisdom booklet number 36

[00:19:04] because this is some bullshit you know in in a crisis every single person does the absolute best

[00:19:11] they can nobody wants to get hurt. So generally people are gonna have one of those four responses

[00:19:20] so what's fawn? Fawn is the one where you try to like play Kate. Oh the person and sometimes

[00:19:26] that might look like or just being quiet and compliant. Okay, so and I'm not just saying this

[00:19:33] to defend myself against a stupid wisdom booklet but oh I don't know if I've talked about on

[00:19:38] the podcast I talk about it in my book I would do different things different times when my brother

[00:19:43] attacked me sometimes I would physically fight him sometimes I would try to get away sometimes I

[00:19:48] absolutely would freeze up and sometimes I figured out because of his violence

[00:19:55] if I didn't want to get strangled again or get hurt or whatever sometimes you just you just shut

[00:20:02] up and deal with it and then you put yourself back together afterward. And that is a legitimate

[00:20:09] crisis response to it is just as legitimate is trying to flee or trying to fight it's just as

[00:20:15] legitimate as freezing up they're all legitimate things so but but what the wisdom booklet is saying is

[00:20:25] that if you do anything other than try to get away or call it for help you're violating scripture

[00:20:34] and and it calls it calls rape a moral attack because again

[00:20:41] at iiblp completely ignores its sexual assault is never about sex truly it's about power and

[00:20:47] control played out through sexual acts so they they're still thinking of it in terms of oh it's

[00:20:53] it's a moral failure not an absolutely malicious criminal enactment of power and control.

[00:21:03] I mean that was that was new to me I mean what was new? So the power and control thing was

[00:21:10] new to me like when I started learning about like sexual assault and like what's really the motivation

[00:21:17] behind it because without knowing any better I just thought like it's a sexual attack of course it's

[00:21:25] a sexual it's sexually motivated sexually motivated like that that was just my assumption based off

[00:21:31] of I guess nothing other than growing up ignorant about it. And so that one was very

[00:21:39] eye opening for me to learn that just like no it's not actually anything about sex it's

[00:21:44] a power and control thing and then like to me that that changed my whole perspective I'm like oh wow

[00:21:50] like that's that's a whole other ball game there. I mean it changed my perspective as a survivor

[00:21:56] when I learned that yeah I mean that makes it more insidious but also I think that realization

[00:22:03] really helped me let go of feeling like it was somehow my fault. So then in typical IBLP

[00:22:12] slash ATI slash Bill gothard fashion there is one anecdote that underpins the whole thing and

[00:22:21] there's a story about a pastor who heard a woman scream and he didn't want to go get involved

[00:22:26] but then he decided to and he saved her from being attacked so obviously crying out for help works

[00:22:33] yeah so we're back to the something happened to the cult that creates more doctrine.

[00:22:41] So again option one for ways you can ways that one who is being attacked can cry out for help

[00:22:49] is one call for help. Cool okay and then there's this little observation you know after it where

[00:22:59] where there's a bunch of like IBLP word salad and bullet one but then bullet two says in this case

[00:23:08] the screams of the girl saved her from defilement. Okay her purity was going to be defiled Kyle

[00:23:15] hmm which is so much more important than the fact that a man was raping her body right yeah she

[00:23:24] was going to be defiled yeah fuck this shit oh man and there's never any mention of like

[00:23:33] the the filament of the man at that point like he made you know if anyone's being defiled it is

[00:23:40] the perpetrator they're defiling their own soul through their action. The victim is never defiled

[00:23:47] Jesus because defile is such a morally charged word so let me pull this thread just a little bit more

[00:23:56] for clarity for everyone. Defilement is a morally charged word and if you apply a morally charged

[00:24:03] word to the victim of the crime you're implicating men in the criminal activity which is not true

[00:24:10] so if you want to use a morally charged word you directed at the perpetrator who is actually

[00:24:15] doing something morally wrong by harming another person. Okay so then we move on to the second

[00:24:25] way someone who is being attacked can cry out for help too cry out to God for help so now you need

[00:24:34] to say the name of Jesus out loud and then we have two stories this one gets two stories Kyle not

[00:24:45] just one and they are from people well the first ones from I don't know who and then the second

[00:24:52] one is like oh I attended the basic seminar and he taught me how to live and then I applied the

[00:24:58] concepts to my life and see how everything worked out for me. I do have a funny story about this

[00:25:03] and real quick though all of the observations for this one are about the power how there's

[00:25:10] power in the name of Jesus so once upon a time when I was like 13 or 14 I went to Disneyland

[00:25:19] in California with my three older siblings because you know Andy and I were we had to hang out all

[00:25:26] the time because no one knew although fun fact it was later in that trip that Amy ended up finding out

[00:25:32] about Andy sexually assaulting me but anyways before all of that we were at Disneyland with two of our

[00:25:38] cousins and we were on the Indiana Jones ride and spoiler alert for people who haven't been on the

[00:25:45] Indiana Jones ride there's this part where like a big rock comes like a huge boulder comes rolling

[00:25:51] toward you and you're in this Jeep that's on a track and the Jeep stalls and the stone is rolling

[00:25:57] in the Jeep stalls and to this day I honestly don't know if the ride malfunctioned or if people were

[00:26:05] just freaking out I've been on that ride so many times and I do know that there was there was

[00:26:10] something weird that time the boulder was rolling at us our Jeep kept stalling kept stalling kept stalling

[00:26:15] and we saw the next Jeep coming toward us like it like our Jeep maybe actually had stalled

[00:26:22] so Andrea and Andy start screaming out Jesus save us and then the Jeep started moving

[00:26:28] and I didn't know what to do because I felt bad because I didn't cry out to Jesus and invoke

[00:26:33] the power of the name of Jesus but also it was like really embarrassed because our cousins were

[00:26:37] looking at them like they were really weird but anyways that's my crying out well someone around

[00:26:46] me did it once and vote the name of Jesus so they're just hoping that by putting this in the curriculum

[00:26:51] that like that would cause a natural reaction that if you were ever in the situation where you're

[00:26:57] being sexually assaulted that like that's the first place your brain goes is like cry out Jesus

[00:27:04] I guess but that isn't the first thing they said to Duke how they said to just call for help

[00:27:08] oh that's true so God is second oh God is second try to get other people to help you then try

[00:27:15] to get God to help you yeah and then the third thing is rebuke the attacker because while you're

[00:27:21] being assaulted you really need to come up with a great rebuke for the person who's attacking you

[00:27:27] and oh god this I'm gonna read this one a little bit go forward from wisdom booklet 36 law resource

[00:27:39] how a midnight sermon stopped a would be attacker a woman was startled one night by an intruder

[00:27:46] who broke into her apartment the attacker stated his intentions meaning he was gonna rape her

[00:27:53] and she replied you'll have to kill me first because I've given my body and my life to the lord

[00:27:59] okay then there's a bunch of iBLP stuff in a bunch of words salad and all of this and then

[00:28:02] in the observation section you know where we analyze the story that you know the one story that

[00:28:08] underpins the whole concept because this one only gets one story it says the woman was willing to

[00:28:17] give him what money she had because that is temporal however the defilement of one's body is worthy

[00:28:25] to be fought against to the death again attaching the morally charged word to the victim of a sex

[00:28:33] crime yeah and saying that you better fight till you're dead it would be better to die than to

[00:28:41] survive a sexual assault which by the way is not true and I'm guessing there's no flip side of

[00:28:49] this about like men don't do this no of course there's not that doesn't know god is special

[00:28:58] responsibility on women Kyle women I mean like direct quote so bad the fourth way you can you

[00:29:09] can cry out for help is to ask god to rebuke the attacker this one is about obscene phone calls

[00:29:18] and praying a hedge of protection around yourself and then the fifth way that you can cry out

[00:29:28] if you're being attacked is to witness to the attacker this is a great opportunity for evangelism

[00:29:35] as it turns out you should definitely proselytize well being sexually assaulted excuse my sarcasm folks

[00:29:42] I'm very mad and that's how it's coming out so we're rolling with it

[00:29:49] and then there was a story and you know the funny thing I'm noticing about these stories is some of

[00:29:54] them are like a person who attended the basic seminar sign in this story and then others are

[00:29:59] there was a woman there was a woman and and I don't who was this woman how do we know that this is

[00:30:07] real anyways so someone was trying to attack her with a gun and get her money and she witnessed

[00:30:16] to him instead so those are five five ways let's let's just recap real quick how you can

[00:30:25] uh what do they call it ways that one who is being attacked can cry out for help one call for help

[00:30:31] two cry out to god for help don't do that first definitely do that second because that's what Bill

[00:30:36] said to do three rebuke the attacker four as god to rebuke the attacker again you're doing it

[00:30:42] thank gods doing it always god second in these scenarios folks according to iblp and then

[00:30:48] fifth of course witness to the attacker and then you have a project a school project Kyle

[00:30:56] because you are in school and this is your curriculum oh no check the following items to determine

[00:31:04] how prepared you are to respond wisely to one who would attack you this is educational material

[00:31:11] for children okay you get worse but it's getting worse one have you dedicated yourself to god

[00:31:20] two do you know what provokes attacks evaluate dress and friends and wine break

[00:31:32] yep that that deserves a wine break here we go with the the blame shifting here

[00:31:37] three have you purposed to resist attackers you know because people really want to get attacked

[00:31:45] do you know how to pray a hedge of thorns see the basic seminar workbook five do you know how to

[00:31:55] present the gospel again this is in a list of ways you can prepare to respond wisely to someone who's

[00:32:03] attacking you do you know how to present the gospel where the fuck is jujitsu on this list

[00:32:09] oh god where's the taser six do you know how to contact the police so we finally get there the

[00:32:19] first time contacting the authorities is you know made it into anything

[00:32:24] hmm okay project two again homework for school aged children how would you respond to the

[00:32:34] following letter quote last November I was assaulted I cried out to god for deliverance but it

[00:32:41] did not stop the attack how should I respond to this after hearing about all the others who

[00:32:45] were supernaturally delivered from evil I don't want to know the answer to this there isn't one

[00:32:51] it is your job as a school aged child to answer that as part of your educational curriculum and

[00:32:57] then there's this weird picture of I don't know what followed by the ultimate deliverance from evil

[00:33:04] is a more glorious resurrection to eternal life he's just shaking my head like yeah I just

[00:33:12] it's crazy but wait oh but wait there's more there's more okay so then from what I can tell in

[00:33:20] 2005 I've you'll piece slash at I don't know if there's even an ati anymore I don't think there is

[00:33:28] maybe there was at the time anyways they decided to review the wisdom booklet so we get an update Kyle

[00:33:33] and I'm thinking to myself like it's gonna be better right it's gonna be better than the 80s

[00:33:40] we start out strong a legal definition of rape is the onlawful carnal knowledge of a female

[00:33:46] by force against her will which granted was still the legal definition in 2005 but then we get

[00:33:53] right into the law of crying out well still there but it has changed a tiny bit God has established

[00:34:01] guidelines of responsibility for one who is attacked it says one instead of a woman but then

[00:34:09] never mind when a woman is attacked she is to cry out for help the victim who fails to do this

[00:34:17] is considered guilty even as the attacker is guilty this is iBLP in 2005 nothing has fucking changed

[00:34:25] I guess I didn't expect it but there's nothing about man like if a guy is attacked

[00:34:32] if a guy is sexually assaulted oh because I guess that doesn't happen to men which is not

[00:34:36] just just for okay educational moment with Amanda here we go guys okay over 50% of women in the

[00:34:42] United States have experienced sexual violence over one third of the men in the United States

[00:34:49] have experienced sexual violence that is still a huge number so men experience sexual assault too

[00:34:57] men deserve to be believed to okay we're gonna have more educational moments with Amanda but we'll

[00:35:04] we'll stop there for that one oh and then we have to remind everyone of course in the 2005 version

[00:35:11] you still get stoned if you didn't cry out no geez

[00:35:15] let me say last time that's even happened like they didn't stone anybody in the cult did they

[00:35:22] no but I mean i think that still happens in other parts oh i definitely

[00:35:26] but the fact that they're advocating for this and then like it never happened is just like okay

[00:35:33] clearly no it's just showing you how serious God is about how culpable you are for your own rape

[00:35:39] if you don't cry out God wants you to be stoned okay so then we have ways to cry out for help

[00:35:48] number one call for help again it says uh that you're violating scripture if you don't offer

[00:35:54] resistance and again it uses the word morally attack putting a morally charged word on the victim

[00:36:04] again did it really say offer resistance um-hmm some women have been advised that it is safer for

[00:36:12] them to cooperate with the one who would morally attack them then to offer resistance this counsel not

[00:36:18] only violates scripture but is not valid as illustrated in the following account we have one

[00:36:23] story to back it up once you know it's the same one from a million years ago where the pastor went out

[00:36:28] and got the guy by the church and then it says in this case the screams of the girl saved her from

[00:36:37] defilement we are still attaching morally charged words to the victim instead of the perpetrator

[00:36:43] this is like what the 18th time hmm hmm even if she had not been rescued in time there still would have

[00:36:52] been benefit from her crying out she would have avoided guilt because she had followed the

[00:36:57] requirements of scripture to prove her innocence this is it's clearly some way that didn't know

[00:37:06] better or was never in this position wrote this or maybe just someone fucking evil there's that too

[00:37:14] I'm gonna have to go back to therapy and tell my therapist my whole working on optimism thing got kind of

[00:37:20] cracked here it's just crazy to think and people do this and you can attest to this that like they think

[00:37:33] you know when you hear these stories you're just like well why didn't they run away or why didn't

[00:37:36] they fight or why didn't they do this or that and they're like putting it in this book saying

[00:37:44] oh you should do these things like follow this one two three four step guide of how to respond

[00:37:50] to this instead of like it's not it's just not that's not how it works it's like someone writing a

[00:37:55] book about how to be a Navy SEAL but they've never even like been in the military yeah in any capacity

[00:38:05] wine break any case anyone is concerned when I say wine break I'm not refilling my whole glass

[00:38:11] I'm just taking a sip okay number two is cry out to god for help so we're still relying on people

[00:38:18] before god which is just weird you know given everything i blp stands for but that did not change

[00:38:25] and then we're still rebuking the attacker as our number third as our number three option

[00:38:31] and oh this is the one where the woman said that she'll have she's given her body to god so

[00:38:36] he'd have to kill her first um by clearly and forcefully informing her attacker that she had

[00:38:43] dedicated her body to the lord she not only brought him face-to-face with the name of god but also

[00:38:48] made it known that if he were to carry out his evil work he would be sealing something that

[00:38:52] belonged to god it's bad on the surface but if you pull that thread it's it's

[00:38:59] bad that this person is trying to rape her because he's taking something that belongs to god

[00:39:04] not because it's just fucking wrong to rape people yeah i mean there's so many things wrong with

[00:39:09] that statement and again we say however the defilement of her body was worthy to be fought against

[00:39:17] to the death this like their tongue god because i was one of these little girls they're telling

[00:39:23] little girls that it is better for them to die they need to fight to the death so that they are

[00:39:30] not defiled that's a lot of purity culture stuff yeah like to the extreme and then order of

[00:39:41] operations then you ask god to rebuke the attacker god second uh and then we're still witnessing

[00:39:49] two attackers in 2005 it's a great opportunity to evangelize

[00:39:54] and then when we look at the project again homework for school aged children in 2005 the checklist

[00:40:03] remains the same have you dedicated yourself to god you know what provokes attacks evaluate

[00:40:07] dress and friends have you purpose to resist attackers do you know how to pray a hedge of thorns

[00:40:13] you know how to present the gospel do you know how to contact the police and then it asks you again

[00:40:18] what you would do if you got that letter about being attacked and not being delivered

[00:40:24] by god great stuff for young minds to grapple with but wait there's even more so i think i've mentioned

[00:40:33] in previous episodes that there's the the whole question that bill got their asks like oh would

[00:40:39] you rather have never been attacked and not be spiritually mighty because they say that being

[00:40:45] sexually assaulted gives you this wonderful opportunity to become spiritually mighty

[00:40:51] no you're making faces up there that people can't see no it's because i've heard this one before and

[00:40:57] I forgot about it and it still shocks me but wait there's more then there there's a whole bulletin

[00:41:05] that i b l p put out called why did god let a four year old boy be molested by a 15 year old neighbor

[00:41:13] i'm going to read you the 12 reasons god bless little kids get raped one

[00:41:20] to teach the child his responsibility to cry out to god for help

[00:41:26] of course two to motivate him to dedicate his body to god

[00:41:32] three to give him a moral vaccination against future temptations whatever the fuck that means

[00:41:40] i'm actually going to read this one because there's like a little paragraph that describes each one

[00:41:45] god will severely judge the 15 year old boy for the evil that he did i'm guessing bill didn't write

[00:41:50] this however your son can turn what was meant for evil into good the vaccinations we receive for

[00:41:57] the various diseases contain a small amount of the actual disease our immune system builds

[00:42:03] oh i get it now builds up a reaction to it so that if our bodies exposed to the to the disease

[00:42:08] it is prepared to fight it off a similar result can occur in the life of your son if this matter

[00:42:14] is handled in a scriptural way it's saying because he's been vaccinated with harmy's not going to go

[00:42:19] harm others so yeah a real good way to make sure your your kids don't grow up and rape each other is

[00:42:24] to ensure that they're raped younger like as a young child this is the most fucked up okay

[00:42:32] mm-hmm four to transform a rouse desired spiritual power uh i have a lot of thoughts about that it

[00:42:40] would take a lot more episodes never mind continuing five to motivate him to write gods law on his heart

[00:42:48] oh because because that's how you transform the event into spiritual power six to concentrate on

[00:42:54] god's hatred of sawdemy okay seven to confirm the importance of avoiding evil companions because

[00:43:02] it's definitely your fault if you get raped three to learn how to discern evil companions

[00:43:08] because again it's definitely your fault nine to work out justice and mercy oh let's read this one

[00:43:15] it is important that justice be carried out in this situation this means proper punishment should

[00:43:21] be administered to the offending neighbor as a preparation for this it is vital to make diligent

[00:43:28] inquiry with each boy to find out all the facts and he hidden aspects of this molestation will give

[00:43:34] the enemy authority and will be used by him in the few uh oh and will be used by him in further

[00:43:41] defeat of both boys once the full facts are known and repented of mercy may be extended please

[00:43:47] note that at no point in there do they say call the fucking authorities okay i might need more wine

[00:43:55] cuz ten to help parents understand the basis of genius and i'm gonna read this one too

[00:44:03] and a study by the Smithsonian institute 40 men considered geniuses were studied in order to find

[00:44:10] common denominators the three common denominators were one parents protected them from contact with

[00:44:16] other children because you shouldn't have friends two they were continually around caring adults who

[00:44:21] taught them what they knew and three they were taught how to creatively solve problems based on this

[00:44:27] your son should not have been with the other boy but rather with the adults so he could learn from them

[00:44:32] that's weird like um-hmm isolate your child and only have them hang out the adults so they can be smart

[00:44:39] and not get raped

[00:44:45] i got nothing okay well eleven to see the need for a daily schedule for the best use of time because

[00:44:53] it says that uh free time is dangerous and unwise and that idle hands are the devil's workshop

[00:45:01] that phrases true and wise parents will keep their kids schedule full throughout the day so the

[00:45:08] child doesn't have time to get into trouble i have that free labor you know the more we get into this

[00:45:13] podcast the more i realize why i am the way i am free time is dangerous Kyle gotta work all the time

[00:45:20] no fun always working no fun um-hmm reference i don't remember which episode to talk about that

[00:45:26] twelve to remind the father to pray a daily hedge of protection

[00:45:35] well at least one man got some culpability in all this the dad didn't pray

[00:45:40] it's his fault the kid got raped i'm running out of emotional energy that's that's all

[00:45:45] I've got in my notes and i'm so angry about all of it oh so that's a crash course on

[00:45:54] the worst possible take on sexual assault and what you

[00:46:00] what you should do according to the cult yeah please just disregard all that it is all complete

[00:46:06] bullshit and if you actually want to know how to have a proper response to sexual assault

[00:46:12] contact me i will happily give you all of the best practices so Amanda won't say it but i'll

[00:46:18] say it a couple years ago she wrote a book a short book hundred something pages about how to

[00:46:28] respond to sexual assault and it's a good read as someone who you know for me is someone who didn't

[00:46:35] experience that or wasn't around it or i didn't even know how many times have you read this book

[00:46:39] you poor man just started dating when i released it and in the lead it was- you were writing it

[00:46:46] yeah i was still writing it when we met and then i think i had you proofread it like what five

[00:46:52] times with me at least then listen to him memorize now a Kyle do you know everything

[00:47:00] are you are you equipped i am much more well equipped than i was um but yeah if you actually want

[00:47:07] some good advice on that uh we'll drop a link in the the episode description but it's a quick

[00:47:13] read of it's an e-book i have not printed it i have not had time for that so it's available on amazon

[00:47:21] and barns and noble as an e-book do you want to give a quick description of what they should expect in

[00:47:26] that book it's a very toned down version of me because i had an editor and i had a lot of people

[00:47:34] provide you know peer review and stuff because it started out a lot more sarcastic than it ended

[00:47:41] up it's probably more palatable that way so this is why we have editors and why we have review

[00:47:48] groups the first draft was real snarky i should probably try to find that

[00:47:57] i thought it i i liked it just so yeah well we'll drop a link in there but it's a quick read if

[00:48:04] you want to know how to help survivors or how to be positive experiences for them and be supportive

[00:48:14] of them as they're processing life after being sexually associated i guess you did ask me a serious

[00:48:22] question so i can give you a serious answer still very angry and it's still coming out of sarcasm

[00:48:30] the book is a compilation of everything i've learned in while at the time i wrote it it was like

[00:48:36] 15ish years of working with survivors of sexual assault so it's their stories and the research

[00:48:43] i did combine with my experience and it's a quick read resource that will run you through best

[00:48:52] practices for the basics of responding well if someone discloses to you that they have been

[00:48:56] sexually assaulted it breaks down terminology and legal terminology it talks about

[00:49:05] what to do if you know the perpetrator um how to support someone through reporting how to

[00:49:11] support someone going through difficult therapy to recover from trauma it's it's a lot of information

[00:49:19] packed in there and i ice purposefully we worked really hard to make it short because what i

[00:49:25] found is that folks who are responding to sexual assault are usually pretty overwhelmed and don't

[00:49:30] have a lot of emotional bandwidth to read like a 500 page textbook so i tried to make it something

[00:49:36] you know a distraught parent could read in a couple hours or um i was in the military at the time

[00:49:43] i wrote it and i was doing a lot of volunteer work for the military around healthy and helpful

[00:49:49] response to sexual assault so in my mind i was thinking like okay what's something

[00:49:54] a commander or a supervisor uh in the civilian context of boss a manager could read on a flight

[00:50:01] you know real quick knock it out try to be better quick to show up and respond well so yeah

[00:50:08] it's a lot more polished than what you get here where i cuss all the time there are no swear words

[00:50:12] in the book those were edited out you did put a lot of time and effort into that um and i

[00:50:21] know we just went through this whole episode of horrible advice um don't listen to build got heard

[00:50:27] listen to me yes basically that's the uh that's the short of it um so yeah i mean with this being april

[00:50:37] in sexual assault awareness month we just kind of wanted to run through the horrible cult idea

[00:50:44] of what the survivor should do in sexual assault um and if you are a survivor just know my heart's

[00:50:52] with you and i hope that this month you see a lot of meanings full support even if it's not

[00:51:01] even if people don't know your story even if that support isn't coming from people close to you

[00:51:05] i hope you see in in society around you that people are talking about this i hope you see the events

[00:51:13] that are happening i hope you see the marches i hope you see the teal ribbons uh if you guys see

[00:51:18] teal around teal is the sexual assault awareness ribbon color uh we have denim day coming up later this month

[00:51:25] so if you are a survivor i hope you see the love i hope you see the support i hope you feel it i

[00:51:31] hope it encourages you to anyone and everyone else i hope you participate in those events i hope

[00:51:38] you participate in denim day i hope you participate in marches i hope you go to the events i hope you

[00:51:45] go listen to people like me who travel around and and talk about sexual assault more than ever this month

[00:51:51] and i hope we all make an investment this month every month would be my preference personally but

[00:51:57] i hope at least this month y'all take a moment to learn more about how to have a trauma informed

[00:52:04] response to folks who have survived sexual assault and just know that it makes a difference one

[00:52:10] person can make such an incredible difference in the life of a survivor and y'all know my story the

[00:52:16] the real hard parts from early on i think it's what episode four five and six where i really get into

[00:52:24] what i went through and the people who helped me but you'll if you remember there were people

[00:52:28] like Emily like the doctors who really listened to me who stepped into my life and would have

[00:52:34] really turned it around they they set me on a different course and in some cases saved my life

[00:52:40] because i was very suicidal at the time so never underestimate the power of healthy and helpful

[00:52:47] response you as one person can make an enormous difference in the life of a survivor so

[00:52:54] after all the bill gothard bullshit let's end with that you as one person can make an incredible

[00:53:00] life saving difference in the life of a survivor with your healthy and helpful response

[00:53:07] thanks for listening to another episode of the cult i left behind

[00:53:10] until next time don't join a cult

[00:53:13] if you enjoyed this podcast please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode