30 - The Ten Unchangeables

[00:00:01] Hi everyone, welcome to The Cult I Left Behind podcast. I'm your host Amanda Briggs and I'm here to tell you my stories of growing up in the IBLP cult, which you might know from the dugger family. And I'm your other host, Kyle Briggs.

[00:00:17] I'm Amanda's husband and I have not heard most of these stories before so stay tuned and we'll all get traumatized together. Alright, welcome back to the next episode. What are you out for tonight Amanda?

[00:00:35] Something that's burned in my brain that did me no actual good growing up but it was a really big part of being a kid in the cult. Okay. Sounds like it could be anything. Uh-huh. No actual value. So, it's called the Ten Unchangeables. Okay.

[00:00:53] Which was kind of the foundation of a lot of the children's institute so the portion of the seminar kids went to while the adults and the non-existent adolescents went to the basic seminar in the advanced seminar. Okay, where are these Ten Unchangeables?

[00:01:13] Well, I need a drink more because like the best way to the best way to tell you about this is the song that 30 years later, I apparently still remember really well as it turns out. Don't know why.

[00:01:29] Uh, probably because we sang it a couple thousand times at the Children's Institute and everywhere else, Knoxville conferences. Um, I'm drinking a margarita. Oh, that's a good drink. Roman Coke. So this is a good margarita. Kyle made it everyone.

[00:01:50] It reminded me that my friend Christina, I call her Christina the badass scientist because she's the badass and a scientist. So it just makes sense to call her that she makes a mean margarita and now I'm really missing it. I'll get her recipe.

[00:02:05] She's a really well, YouTube would probably get along while she's a great mixologist. You're a great mixologist. You both have the same sense of humor and you both scare me just a little. Whatever to you. See how well I can procrastinate. Mm-hmm. I don't want to.

[00:02:28] So did you remember this song or did, or I guess let me rephrase that yesterday? Did had you remember this song or did you just remember it when you intentionally thought about like this topic?

[00:02:43] I guess it immediately spring to mind in its complete form when I looked at the list of topics. So you didn't even have to like try to remember parts of it. Like the whole thing just pops in there. The whole thing. Okay, that's scary. Oh yeah.

[00:03:01] So I could sing it or I could just tell you the lyrics because you're definitely going to sing. Oh, I am. Yes. Well, I'm not going to like actually try to sing it well. No. I'm going to like speed sing it. Okay. I need more. Thank you, drink.

[00:03:17] More to heal. So what I guess before you start seeing this, what is it? Like what is the song? Tyler, 10 things you can't change about yourself. Also they're all in the song. Oh yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay.

[00:03:31] I apologize and advance for how horrible this is going to be. You don't have to sing it if you don't want to. So cherry, piano, intro, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. I am one of a kind two for my mom and dad three for my brothers and sisters.

[00:03:52] They're the best I ever had and for nationality. Five mental capacity six time in history. I don't think for further away the God made me. And seven is because perfect plan for me as a be. Oh, why? Or G-I-R-O. You have to shout that part really loud.

[00:04:13] And eight is the order in my family. That's how we fit together. Oh, so well nine is for aging, then dramatic. 10 for the time we die. I can hold that one out. No longer. Very good. So say goodbye to the sold world because it's teller to eternal life.

[00:04:37] I don't know why that fits into the end, but that's at the end of the song. Yeah, I definitely thought you were that on this. I don't know why that was there. I can't die in a corner now. It's a kid telemagnic and actually seeing very well.

[00:04:54] And that song is just, That was not it. No, that was not. Not what you're used to saying. So those are the ten and changeable sky. Right. You didn't learn this song growing up. This was part of your educational curriculum. No, but I'm still seems not age appropriate.

[00:05:14] Okay, let's just like with everything else that was taught to like small children and they called that just didn't seem very age appropriate. But I guess that's nothing new. That's not surprising. Should we break down each and changeable?

[00:05:28] Yeah, definitely because I've got a lot of those just watching me saying this. Just like I don't know what's happening. I know I couldn't like it. Oh, well, they've changed it. I've got P has changed the list. Oh, so was this the original? This is the original.

[00:05:49] Very not PC. It's still not PC, but they changed nationality to ethnicity. And then they did, all right, let's look real quick. Okay, so they got rid of one I am one of a kind. And now it's one is parents. And then the second one is physical features,

[00:06:11] which I guess would have been one of a kind. Hmm. Three is gender. That got moved way up on the list. Seven, used to be seven, gender used to be seven. Now it's three. Okay. So the order, this is these are an order of importance then?

[00:06:28] I guess because parents are first. No, of course. I don't got there to be first. Well, authorities, you know. Physical features, gender. Okay, then brothers and sisters, then birth order, then ethnicity, no longer nationality. Oh, place of origin is now nationality.

[00:06:47] So they added ethnicity to not used to be their time in history, mental abilities, and to add ethnicity, they put aging and time of death as one. That's now number 10. Okay. So, I mean, I think a lot of people would have a lot to say

[00:07:07] on if these are unchangeables. I mean, what was the point of like, what were they trying to teach you? That's a really good question. Um, so it was just a song. They were like, you're going to learn this song and sing it?

[00:07:24] Well, we were supposed to understand that these are 10 things we have to accept and get in line with because God made them that way and we can't change them. Okay. Hmm. So I found this blog as one does. Hmm.

[00:07:40] And it's by a super like, fundee woman who back in 2014 decided to make a post about the 10 on changeables as part of her like health and fitness blog. Okay. Yeah. So she says a bunch of stuff and then she's like,

[00:07:57] these other people can say it better than I can. She said the credit goes to doctor and Mrs. Bennett. They worded it way better than I could have. So I just included their notes below. I don't know who the bandits are.

[00:08:12] I don't remember if they're ATI or IBLP. But you know how like the seven basic needs of a husband and wife got republished on the Dugger's website with their own wording. I think this was probably something similar.

[00:08:25] But I really like what doctor and Mrs. Bennett say about parents, Kyle. Okay. What did they say? Parents. Good bad or indifferent. Proverbs 2020. He who curses his father or his mother. His lamp will go out in times of darkness and Ephesians 6 to all caps.

[00:08:49] Honor your father and mother, which is the first commitment with a promise. Proverbs 377, the eye that mocks a father and scorns a mother. The ravens of the valley shall pick it out and the young eagles will eat it. Do you think God is serious about this one?

[00:09:09] It doesn't say if they are Christian or if they are sober, etc. Christian or sober. Okay. So if you have parents who don't conform to your religion or they struggle with addictions or alcoholism, if you don't honor them the ravens will pick your eyes out

[00:09:32] and young eagles will eat them. And God's really serious about this one. Yeah. So that's what doctor Mrs. Bennett had to say. But if you look at what I feel P has to say on their website, they say that God chose your father and mother.

[00:09:49] And since the fall of Adam and Eve, God has worked through imperfect parents to accomplish his purposes in the world. Some of the weaknesses in your parents will be passed on to you to compensate for this challenge God provides special grace to deal with imperfections. See, second Corinthians 129.

[00:10:08] Now, so basically this in retrospect it's like you know all the abuse we talked about in last weeks episode like God planned that Kyle. God specifically picked for you know me and my siblings to get beaten up by Chris

[00:10:30] as part of his perfect plan to accomplish his purposes in the world. I mean, I've definitely heard that in like church you know the people will kind of use that as I don't know a consolation when bad things happened. They're just like well that was God's plan.

[00:10:50] Oh yeah. So like you know that's pretty normalized. Not like it should be but it is normalized. And so are they like trying to say you know your family's unchange one of the unchangeable things?

[00:11:03] So yeah, but I like kind of rejected that because I have totally discarded my family and picked him you one. Yeah. So from where I stand like that's pretty fucking change. That one did not apply to you could have left that one out of the song.

[00:11:23] So then two is your physical features. So in the call you weren't supposed to change anything like a nose job was rejecting God and his design and plan. But again, I feel like physical features especially with current technology like that's very changeable. You can you can do a

[00:11:44] lot of cosmetic surgery and change how you look. What did what did they say? I what were some of the examples of things like you shouldn't change like how strict was it? Oh I remember your height

[00:11:56] was a big one. Your voice your body build metabolism complexion eyes ears hands feet and countless other features down to the smallest detail. So wait they didn't want you to change your physical size. So like if you started working out and got buff that wasn't okay.

[00:12:14] No, you definitely had to do that. Okay. Yeah, let me see what doctor and Mrs Bennett have to say about this. They say you are uniquely you, one of a kind physically height, hair color and texture,

[00:12:30] or lack thereof bone structure foot size, sweaty palms, general appearances etc. I mean I think you can even do a lot to change your bone structure these days. Yeah, I've heard of that one that

[00:12:43] it's crazy but yes. So I feel like the first two unchangeables are pretty fucking changeable have the time money or inclination. All right, so let's see what the third one is. I'm going off the

[00:12:58] new list gender. I feel like a lot of people would have a lot to say about that one. Brothers and sisters. Well, I also feel like that's pretty changeable. See my life history for examples thereof.

[00:13:17] Well, I mean they didn't want you to adopt right? Oh yeah, we still need to do an episode on that. Yeah, so that kind of falls in line with with that thinking and once your family to stay,

[00:13:28] just as it is. Oh but as an only child, Kyle loneliness may serve as a signal to deepen your walk with God and invest in the lives of others. So they didn't. So they wanted you to have like

[00:13:42] 30 kids but if you just happen to have one, it's still a good thing. Well, yeah, you're not, you're not as spiritual obviously because this, oh gosh, we'll get into this in the adoption

[00:13:56] episode. The ability to conceive is considered a sign and blessing from God that you should be a parent. And if if you have one, then you are therefore supposed to slash aloud to have many. Hmm. That'll be a fun episode crazy ideologies there.

[00:14:21] Birth order, okay, this one all agree. You can't really change that. That one's pretty. Yeah, like even if if a sibling passes away or something like it's the birth order is the birth order. Ethnicity rejecting your ethnic and ancestral background will produce detrimental

[00:14:41] attitudes of either inferiority or superiority. So they just want you to keep whatever your cultural background is. Each ethnic group has unique culture and characteristics, but these so-called races are actually one race descended from common parents at a manoeuvre, but you're not supposed to

[00:15:00] reject your heritage. Okay. And if you accept your heritage, you can see other people as the special work of God's design or here's a thought. Here's a thought like radical thought. We could all just

[00:15:14] treat each other with dignity and respect because we're humans. I know, I know, so radical guys. So controversial. Oh my God. Would be in the cold. Well, yeah, place of origin. You can become a

[00:15:32] citizen of another country. So I don't really think that's an unchangeable. Like maybe where you were born. Like there's the paperwork for that and everything obviously, but like what about folks with dual

[00:15:48] citizenship when they're born? What about if you decide, well, I feel a lot better when I'm in this country because the climate and culture and food and everything agrees with me more. I'm going to go through the steps to change my citizenship. So did they promote a culture

[00:16:09] within the cult of like you just kind of stay put wherever you're at and you just pop out a bunch of kids and you keep going to the cult church and you follow all this rhetoric and like just don't

[00:16:21] don't rock the boat unless unless they wanted you to move to headquarters. You know, I actually don't know. I mean it's kind of what they're getting to with the unchangeable things though. Like

[00:16:32] or some of them it kind of seems like they just don't change. It seems to be like messages are trying to push through there. Let me look at what doctor and Mrs. Bennett have to say. Yeah, this doesn't

[00:16:44] help. It just talks about biblical characters, nationalities. I don't know. I got nothing. That I mean this just seems like another one of the things that's in the cult that it's just like

[00:16:57] it doesn't make any sense. It's like like why are we making this so important? Why is that I have to know the song 30 years later? Because I sing it so many times as a kid. Excellent questions

[00:17:08] Kyle. This is why you announced reviving a cult. This is why I did not do well in a cult either. Time in history. I mean, I can get on board with the fact that you can't really change that. We

[00:17:18] don't have time machines. Not yet. At the moment back to the future. What? So I mean sure. I'll agree with Alan. How many of we agreed with? Let's see. Let's do a quick little count. One, two,

[00:17:34] three. We're on eight and I agree with three so far. This is great. Okay. So yes, God has a special purpose for your life. He brought you into the world that just the right time in history to to fulfill

[00:17:46] that purpose. To yearn to have been born in a different time or to dislike the time you are living and now is to reject God's purpose for your existence at this specific time in history.

[00:17:57] Better not, you know, wish oh that was a quote like you shouldn't go back to the good old days. That's rejecting God's plan for your life if you if you pine for the good old days or,

[00:18:09] you know, to have lived in a different era. I mean that's an interesting one for the cult because I feel like they could twist that around where it's like oh, you know, little suzy complained about, you know, whatever being touched inappropriately. Let's just move on,

[00:18:26] let not like dwell in the past. Well, they could spin it that way and they probably did. I mean, it would depend if it was your brother will God pick that brother for you.

[00:18:40] And you're here at this time and in this place with these parents who aren't going to intervene. Yeah, I'm not going to know. Like God's perfect will can be played out in your life. And then mental abilities. So you can't learn anything.

[00:18:56] Can you smarter? This seems very much geared to accepting your IQ even if it isn't as high as you would like it to be. That like as I read this, that's kind of the only way to interpret it.

[00:19:11] It's not like, wow, if from the ideal peeperspective, God has blessed you with this incredible mental capacity. Use it to glorify him. No, it's hey, God made you the way he made you and comparing yourself to others is tempting but hey, you're unique. Remember that.

[00:19:33] Yeah, I mean, even in areas of black, God said he is able to prove himself strong where you are weak. Yeah, I mean, they just sounds like they're trying to play it off. It's just like you can't improve yourself or you shouldn't change yourself either. But like

[00:19:52] you can't like this one specifically and maybe even with the physical one, like you can't improve your isn't there a whole TED talk that's like incredible about increasing IQ? I mean, you, I don't know. And there are so many theories out there about like training your brain.

[00:20:13] Well, yeah, I mean, there's that. I mean, like you can learn things. You obviously learn things as you're growing up and you're, you know, you start off with basic arithmetic and then you learn

[00:20:22] like geometry and algebra and trig and then calculus and physics. Like you learn as you grow and get older and, you know, you kind of build upon the things you learned before. So just saying

[00:20:35] you're never going to get smarter. It seems like the only reason you would tell somebody that is because you want them to not become wiser. And why would you want to do that? Hmm. I'm looking at what the bandits have to say about all this.

[00:20:51] It's word salad. It, it doesn't surprise. It's so hard to do these episodes when she's like this doesn't make any sense. And it's like looking at this like how can I explain this to our listeners?

[00:21:08] Well, I mean, it's I think the best we could do is just like go through and read it and like it doesn't make any sense but that I mean, that's what we're talking about is like this is the

[00:21:17] cult. This is what they taught and like even if it doesn't make sense, like that it made sense to somebody. Well, and I think it's a good way, I mean, I talk about oppression a lot but I think it's

[00:21:29] it's another subtle way you can oppress people. Like, oh, you're a girl. You struggle the little bit learning algebra. Oh, it's okay. You don't need that. You just need to know your

[00:21:41] fractions for baking and cooking. God made you with the brain you have and it's okay if you don't understand anything else instead of like actually educating people. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I take that one

[00:21:54] from an oppression standpoint. Definitely. So I don't agree with that one either. So we agree with three out of nine so far. Aging in time of death. Like sure. Well, okay. Maybe maybe not. Aging

[00:22:08] yeah, like we age it's a thing. Time of death. I mean, that's an interesting one because depends on how you look at it because you know, you get in a car accident and you're in an hospital and

[00:22:23] you know the doctor saves your life or I guess it doesn't. Is the other outcome there? And I guess depending on what your belief system is like you could say, well,

[00:22:35] that was his time like it was God's purpose or whatever that you were going to die after that car accident and like that's the way you look at it or maybe you were in really bad shape

[00:22:46] and someone stopped and saved your life for whatever and like, and there's also like, I mean, you can also pick when you die which I do not recommend. Mm-hmm. But that's another thing.

[00:23:02] Fun fact, my ex's parents believed that you shouldn't use doctors or do anything to stop death. Other than annoyed with a whale and pray because if that's your time then that's your time.

[00:23:20] So like they literally would not medically intervene. So the that apply also just for like general health. Yeah, like they wouldn't take medicine either. Yeah, so like you broke your brok your arm or

[00:23:34] whatever like what was the what was the well when my ex's her law was a toddler. She got run over by a work truck and it broke her collarbone and they annoying to throw with a whale and pray it. Okay, that answers that question. Yeah.

[00:23:51] But they weren't the cold. They weren't in the cold. No, they were they were a different cold actually. They followed a dude who I think was at a like Oklahoma in the 1800s or something.

[00:24:06] Yeah, but so yeah, like the cold didn't like we were allowed to have surgeries. We were allowed to seek medical intervention that was never a problem. We were of course supposed to pray and trust

[00:24:21] God, but like yeah, I don't think you had to do a do not resuscitate to be holy in the cold. Okay. Yeah. Interesting one to to uh I guess it's interesting that there's other religious groups or I'm sure cults that you know don't don't agree with modern medicine.

[00:24:50] I guess it's just interesting to me that that's that's one they chose to make an exception for. So that's what you apparently can't change turns out a lot of it is changeable. Hmm.

[00:25:03] Tweakable. I still like I still still to honor say like why are you teaching kids these this all like what what are you trying to accomplish here? Let me look at their. Wait, doesn't seem like there's any website again. There's any you know just from hearing the song

[00:25:23] and what's in it I can't draw a conclusion of like why why does this song exist? Let alone why are you having children sing it. So this is what the IBLP website currently says about

[00:25:37] this concept. I don't know what it said back in the 90s when I was singing that song on repeat at Children's Institute, but the entry is called how can I accept myself the way God made me

[00:25:50] building trust in your designer. So then it talks about how you can change things like your attitude, your behavior and your personal meetness but then there's a bunch of stuff you can't

[00:26:07] change. And how can you accept this stuff you can't change? You must learn to see that you are created according to God's perfect design and that design is intended for accomplishing his purposes.

[00:26:23] And then it quotes a verse and Isaiah that talks about how God's a Potter and where the clay. Okay so there just- Oh here we go, here we go. Your attitude about yourself has a profound influence

[00:26:36] on your attitudes about God, your family, your friends and your future. Self-acceptance brings freedom from comparison with others as you discover the goodness of God and his purposes in your design. So those are the things we can't fuck with, attitudes about your parents and God and

[00:26:57] your future doing everything Bill says. So maybe the whole thing, the whole premise of the song then is just that what did they put in the title of that trust in your designer? Yes building trust in your designer. Yeah so that was the purpose of the song then.

[00:27:16] Just when you reject yourself you're actually rejecting God and his work in your life. God is design life with the following 10 areas of unchangeable again in quotation marks. We did not choose them, we cannot change them. All of these attributes are built into your unique design.

[00:27:36] I mean- I think you're a lot of people who take a lot of issue with a lot of items on this list. I mean, I heard similar things to that growing up in church building trust in your designer

[00:27:48] and it's like you know God's plan and like you you're this tall because there was a reason for it. You're you can sing because there was a reason for that. Like God had a reason for everything.

[00:28:03] Your talents, like all that kind of stuff. So like that that stuff I've heard before but yeah we never say it's all about that. And I- And some of those are just very interesting like yeah like well of course you can't change your ethnicity like the year.

[00:28:22] The color of your skin. DNA is DNA and like you can't change that you can't change who you and it would be great if we lived in a world where nobody wanted to have a different appearance

[00:28:37] because no one's discriminated against or treated poorly due to their skin color or appearance or whatever. So I would rather focus my energy instead of like going oh I must accept these

[00:28:51] unchangeables personally. I'd rather put that energy into like how do we fix this fucked up world so people don't have to worry about this shit. Just an idea for consideration. So you learn this in at one of the like children's institute, children's institute things.

[00:29:11] Yeah the seminar for kids. Yep and it had that song and I've talked about the boomerang song in the Proverbs 31 woman song. Oh my gosh there was like the greatfulness song and the

[00:29:27] attentiveness song. There were a bunch of songs Kyle. He had learned a lot of songs and then we had to sing a lot of songs and there were a lot of hand motions that went with the songs. Oh yes of course.

[00:29:38] So the way children's institute worked is like see my brain just goes back to military so like there were flights of you know 10 to 15 of us and then we were in squadrons and then we all

[00:29:50] got together in the auditorium is the wing and anyways so we had like literally they would make cubicles out of tables. So there was like a square and we would all sit on the floor and we

[00:30:08] had all of our craft supplies and the story supplies and then we were usually two leaders who were in charge of that little group of you know tennis of us and we were all like in this big room.

[00:30:21] So it was noisy who's so loud. But there were a bunch of these cubicle cubby things of kids and so we would do like part of the time there with like our small group and then

[00:30:35] and then oh man where we part of like subgroups we might have been and then we would go into like the big area with all the chairs and the piano was there and that's where we would have like group

[00:30:49] song learning and singing and story time and memorizing character qualities and skits that the team leaders like the children's institute leaders would do and I'm sure we thought they were really funny because in a cult you just have a very different idea

[00:31:09] of what's funny. But I remember we laughed a lot in the big auditorium thing but like when we were back in the little cubicle thingies we were like making diagrams and construction paper castles

[00:31:25] of Satan strongholds in our heart. Oh no. Yeah so I mean it was very interesting roller coaster of emotions at the Children's Institute because when many are like oh my goodness she can't say

[00:31:40] oh my god you can even say oh my gosh like oh my goodness Satan is taking over my heart and there's a castle there's a black castle in my heart of Satan and his work and his infiltration

[00:31:55] and then you're like you know scared and thinking about hell and dying and you're just trash and and definitely like demon possessed and then you form up in a line and you march over to

[00:32:08] the big auditorium and then you're laughing about like some story about obedience where an animal dies because they didn't obey their mom and singing you know the ten unchangedable song was a great time Kyle. It sounds like it was lots of beer mongering.

[00:32:26] Oh well obviously so like so all that made me think like was there any part of that that was just like fun did you guys were you allowed to just like be kids and go play or was it just like

[00:32:43] nonstop. So there was no like the reason oh my god no wonder that felt so comfortable with failure and military training it was like oh I'm not like my bummer meant for a man ah it felt like home

[00:33:02] he's standing in formation and marching around and why oh my god. I'm fine and I just never put that together before like it was just very comfortable and familiar Kyle. I get it and I know how much we

[00:33:20] actually love that stuff and so I have no idea what's going on behind your brain right now behind the scenes because like I know how much you love the military and how much you love all of it.

[00:33:39] You grew up in a cult consider joining the military you'll do great oh we should do a whole episode on how being in a cult made me really good at being in the military. Oh that is a good idea oh we should

[00:33:50] do that one because there's a lot like even the shouting I mean in the cult we were shouting about like death and hell and God and demons and angels not the constitution but yeah there there's

[00:34:06] a lot of overlap as it turns out as I sit here and think about it yeah we we would form up and and march from our little cubbies to the main auditoria maria. Did they actually like try to make

[00:34:26] a bunch of small children like stay in formation? Are you kidding did they of course and was it that hard for them no we were all being beaten at home? We knew how to jump to attention and get in line

[00:34:39] and stay still and shut up and be silent. I remember having to do a little bit of that in like like public school where it was just like everybody lined up you know it's lunch break now and so

[00:34:55] we're gonna walk over to the cafeteria whatever and they like try to keep you know 15 kids to stay in line and not hit each other or whatever but yeah it was never very like regimented like

[00:35:08] were you guys having like march in step and like the whole I am pretty sure we had to line up shortest to tallest which um by the way the military goes tallest is shortest so that was even familiar

[00:35:21] and I think we had to put our hands on the shoulders of the person in front of us as a kid in the cult and so we yeah we were like in step because you had to like yeah you're so close

[00:35:34] yeah you had to keep up and not like go and not let the chain get disconnected because you're the weak link. Is that where they told you? Yeah I just sounds like non-stop brainwashing like

[00:35:51] everything was cause it was like it was but at the same time I get I just always have this feeling but they had to let you be kids at some point right in the answers no but we have a whole episode

[00:36:03] planned about like why you aren't allowed to have fun Kyle. Life isn't about fun because you know that did you know that? I don't I don't subscribe to that method all the time. Well I know you scared me

[00:36:16] because your like life is about having fun and like you say that like literally you'll say those words and then I have like ricks voice like screaming in my head. Life isn't about fun kids!

[00:36:30] This is a true story and so like you know it's a little scary to be married to someone who's probably demon possessed and pursuing fun. Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh

[00:36:47] that's not even sad about that. They're a lot of reasons that sometimes I'm like wow we're kind of unlikely like we have a lot of similarities you and I but also we're a little unlikely you like fun I think fun is the pursuit of Satan. Yes oh man

[00:37:19] so as we talk to your stuff like get more and more into this is like okay more things in make sense I understand them and it's like this is here's the underlying cult stuff and here's

[00:37:36] stuff that's not called I just learn more and more every day. What you learn this time? Oh that like your love for the military and the organization and the structure and all that stuff

[00:37:49] was rooted in childhood like brainwashing of like we must march and see these weird songs and there's no fun. I guess something to think about we'll do the military at the so

[00:38:12] yeah. Oh sure that's not entirely it I know you're very patriotic and you know have a deep love for your country and that was a huge motivation for you going into the military and your

[00:38:24] your grandpa's been in the military and so like that was you know and still to the young age anyway so it's not I don't think your entire love of the military is all rooted in cult stuff by any means

[00:38:37] there's. So here's the real question what I have been type A had I not grown up in the cult and what's in my type A because I grew up in the cult. Well that's a good question like is that normal

[00:38:49] for cult kids all be type A? I would guess so like because it seems like they force you to be that like perfectionism no fun do work get good grades they kind of force you to have the characteristics

[00:39:05] of a type A person maybe not necessarily forcing you to become a type A person but but I wasn't good at court and it was good at military. Well you wanted to go into the military.

[00:39:20] That's true. I feel like the military even with how unreasonable it can be it was a lot more reasonable than the cult that's bad. Yeah that's something we're thinking about. I mean just so even within your

[00:39:37] biological like siblings like was everybody like very type A. Andrea was I don't know about Andy. Amy was I don't know. I definitely was. I know you said it like you guys had a lot of pressure to be

[00:39:53] perfect. Yeah grades and everything. Erin wasn't so much. Adam was type A I think. Adam is very disciplined. Alec he was somewhere between Erin and Adam and I don't know about Abby because

[00:40:09] you know I have a known her since she was 14 and she was the baby of the family so um she she's just had a different experience in the family. I mean a lot of cult kids were really good at

[00:40:24] something you know if it maybe they were really good at an instrument that was pretty common. Or they were really good at art or calligraphy or Latin or the calligraphy thing put me every time I'm just like really

[00:40:45] or like cooking or you know something like that writing debate. So I think it I think it definitely celebrated type A traits and people. Here's a question have you

[00:41:02] ever seen me act not type A? Sometimes it's very confusing. Oh tell me. So in the type A things like you're normally like have a very specific way of you're like this is how I do things as

[00:41:18] I want to done. This is the right way of doing it like type A you just like narrow like laser focus on like this is it. And then there's sometimes I'm like okay like I know

[00:41:31] what she's thinking right now and this is how she's going to want to do it or this is going to be her preference I guess is probably the best way of putting this generalizing it but like

[00:41:40] I'll think like this is going to be her preference for something and then you're going to then you turn around you're like well you know I don't care and I'm like what? Well Kyle it's

[00:41:49] basic military tactics you have to keep the adversary guessing it's important to be a little unpredictable it works not that you're the adversary but you know what I mean it's important to be a little unpredictable

[00:42:02] so I would say that's off the top of my head that's the kind of thing that catches me off guard like when I randomly say oh yeah and I travel alone I don't even book hotels

[00:42:13] just like that's perfect example I'm just like this is not normally we're on a road trip and you're like where are we stopping next and you want to know like the whole plan like this is a

[00:42:24] 10 hour drive like what is happening in the next 10 hours like and when isn't happening and then you turn around you're just like now I'll drive across country and stop wherever and like

[00:42:34] no I don't book hotels ahead of time and I don't know where I'm going to you know sleep or eat or anything I just go and I'm like I don't get it so confused right now let's because when it's just me

[00:42:47] it's not impacting anyone else if I you know pass the only place to eat yeah it's just so out of I can't get you there it's there to be hangar yeah I mean I I get your rationale but from like my perspective

[00:43:01] it's just like this is so out of character it's confusing so I guess personality and preferences are not unchangeables because you have to make your own unchanged because you'll be like

[00:43:20] Mr. spontaneous and then if we're doing a project you're like I need to have all of the specs and I need to know what we're doing and when we're doing it and how we're doing it and

[00:43:32] where's the tape measure? I have a little complicated and the sense that like I'm very spontaneous but I've also done a ton of engineering stuff where they're just like very you know very step by

[00:43:47] step here's the prerequisites you need all this information before you can even start. I mean I think it's hot I'm totally okay with this so yeah like I'm sure it's confusing. I'm kind of very attractive

[00:43:58] sometimes I'm just like whatever we're just gonna wing it like you know and then other times like no I need to have like all of the materials up front I need to have a bill of materials and

[00:44:07] I need to know exactly how much of everything and before we start building this thing like this is you know we gotta have a plan I need to draw it all out I need to know all the parts

[00:44:16] we're gonna go to the store and buy all the stuff and we need to get it all at once and then other times I'm just like whatever we'll see what we got we'll just throw something together

[00:44:26] probably just depends on my mood honestly. Moons are not part of the tenon changeables if they are for you maybe consider therapy that might be the sign of a deeper problem well I mean that's really all I've got about the tenon changeables the song was weird

[00:44:47] children's and students were saved that was fun. might delete um that's too late you get delete. I do what I want Kyle. my mind is not one of the tenon changeables can change my mind.

[00:45:02] well that was a very interesting song about nothing. Nothing and a brainwashing song for children about I have no idea but yeah that was the tenon changeables. okay well I think we were gonna do the basic life principles next but now I'm kind of thinking we should do

[00:45:25] the military episode next. We'll see we'll see how we feel Kyle we'll see what the most is. Super changes all right well stay tuned we'll be back next Monday with something thanks for listening to another episode of the cult I left behind.

[00:45:44] until next time don't join a cult. if you enjoyed this podcast please like share and subscribe and we will catch you on the next episode.